DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

[Doco]

So mantle was announced and threatened Dx - at-least they fought back - competition is always a bonus eh lol

 

[Gregster]

This congers up some interesting cogitations.

Do do do come on and do the .....

Nvidia don't like Mantle because it gives AMD something significant which they don't have.

Spot on. AMD would have made nVidia sit up and take note.

Microsoft feel the same way because it gets around them using their PC monopoly in Gimping PC Gaming by making it difficult to develop good PC games, thus taking away their xBox Live fee payers.

I feel a lot of PC gamers also own Playstations and Xbox's, so i don't feel the PC is in direct competition with the console. Maybe MS know this and will work for the PC gamer as hard as they do for the Xbox gamers.

Intel also don't like it because it would get very difficult for them to justify twice the price of their CPU's if people couldn't see a significant difference in Gaming performance with them.

Intel have pretty much had the monopoly on CPU's since the Athlon 64 days. AMD have fallen further and further back and only now started to give a bit of fight back.

Ever feel like the outsider? Oh AMD why do you keep putting yourself in these situations? why don't you just conform or go away, eh?

AMD will be fine and will continue business as usual

 

[almighty15]

Consoles will run Mantle eventually which would still make it a better option then DirectX or OpenGL.

After all why code for several API's when you can code for Mantle and get it running on all 3 platforms?

 

[humbug]

I feel a lot of PC gamers also own Playstations and Xbox's, so i don't feel the PC is in direct competition with the console. Maybe MS know this and will work for the PC gamer as hard as they do for the Xbox gamers.

no one i know who games on PC has an xBox, they might have a PS3/4 but not an xBox, they simply don't believe in having to pay to play.

Intel have pretty much had the monopoly on CPU's since the Athlon 64 days. AMD have fallen further and further back and only now started to give a bit of fight back.

Because they are able to show better performance in games, take that away, no one will pay £280 for a CPU when its no better than a £140 CPU.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Source?

If the SDK's not finished, and they are still working with the likes of Oxide and Frosbite to get it done, then what exactly are AMD supposed to give out to devs before it's finished?

AMD are obviously using the current Mantle devs as testers to help them build Mantle to the point where an SDK is released. Taking on more testers than they need is actually counter productive.

Maybe a small Czech developer who's known for a few small games and the perpetually never finished ARMA isn't a useful tester for AMD at the moment?

Lol actually the arma 3 engine would be an excellent showcase for Mantle but ok lol. On phone but I'm sure I can find it later

 

[Gregster]

no one i know who games on PC has an xBox, they might have a PS3/4 but not an xBox, they simply don't believe in having to pay to play.

Because they are able to show better performance in games, take that away, no one will pay £280 for a CPU when its no better than a £140 CPU.

Well in fairness, I only know 2 people who game on PC and Xbox but know 6 people (off the top of my head) who game on PC and Playstation.

As for CPU's, don't we tend to do that now with GPU's? Why have a 780Ti, when a 770 does a fine job at 1080P? People buy it because they can.

 

[FoxEye]

no one i know who games on PC has an xBox, they might have a PS3/4 but not an xBox, they simply don't believe in having to pay to play.



Because they are able to show better performance in games, take that away, no one will pay £280 for a CPU when its no better than a £140 CPU.

My i5 2500k was £120 a couple years ago... From most retailers they were £160 tops.

Who buys a £280 CPU for gaming? That's the domain of the hardcore benchmarkers

 

[Silent_Scone]

Consoles will run Mantle eventually which would still make it a better option then DirectX or OpenGL.

After all why code for several API's when you can code for Mantle and get it running on all 3 platforms?

Sorry, what? Consoles will never use Mantle.

 

[pgi947]

Sorry, what? Consoles will never use Mantle.

Correct. At least the xbone won't. They already use a custom low level api, why go to the expense of creating another dev kit to do exactly the same thing

 

[Silent_Scone]

Are DX/GL gonna allow custom AFR alternatives in multi-GPU setups? Mantle was more than just CPU overhead. Stacked VRAM (one giant logical framebuffer) was even hinted at.

I believe everyone involved with Mantle has already stated outright that AFR is still preferable over synchronous crossfire. Meaning it's still not viable

 

[Steampunk]

Lol actually the arma 3 engine would be an excellent showcase for Mantle but ok lol. On phone but I'm sure I can find it later

And if AMD don't need any more devs for testing/developing Mantle right now? Or maybe there were other reasons? There are a lot of games that would make excellent showcases for Mantle, so ARMA isn't anything special in that respect.

I don't really understand the link you're trying to make between a developer being told they can't have the Mantle SDK yet because it isn't finished, and "OMG N0 MANTEL SDK EVAR FOR ANY1 !!!111111"

 

[Lance9394]

Dx or mantle, whichever one works is good news to us PC gamers, long live the PC

 

[nitram100]

Will believe it when I see it. All I know is Star Citizen is using Mantle, which is all I care about.

 

[LambChop]

This congers up some interesting cogitations.

Nvidia don't like Mantle because it gives AMD something significant which they don't have.

Now I know that wasnt serious. But lets take it you were being serious there for a minute.

Have a real good think about this for a min, do you really think nVidia do not like a broken API ? An API that took them weeks upon weeks to be playable in one single game (which still isnt), which was most likely so broken up that it wasnt ready in time for Thief and has support in a handful of cards ? Really ?

Right now, AMD have nothing, you keep telling yourself its significant if you like, but a broken api in one game for a handful of cards is quite frankly pretty much laughable.

I would be pretty much shocked if Mantle even got in as many games as PhysX has, and we all know what AMD bumboys think of that. Puts it in perspective doesnt it.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Now I know that wasnt serious. But lets take it you were being serious there for a minute.

Have a real good think about this for a min, do you really think nVidia do not like a broken API ? An API that took them weeks upon weeks to be playable in one single game (which still isnt), which was most likely so broken up that it wasnt ready in time for Thief and has support in a handful of cards ? Really ?

Right now, AMD have nothing, you keep telling yourself its significant if you like, but a broken api in one game for a handful of cards is quite frankly pretty much laughable.

I would be pretty much shocked if Mantle even got in as many games as PhysX has, and we all know what AMD bumboys think of that. Puts it in perspective doesnt it.

You mean the api that is still in alpha where bugs are expected. What is known though is when Mantle is working it's better than dx and smoother to boot no matter the fps. Yep if i was Nvidia it would be worrying me that an Api in alpha is running pretty good now. If all goes well Nvidia might even benefit from it you never know.

 

[Ian Evey]

Nvidia will benefit if they bring out there own api.

 

[AWPC]

Here's the thing MS are taking notice of PC more as:

1: Valve are trying to cut them out of by going Linux only. Gabe said a few days ago he does not expect problems in getting most of the Steam library running on Linux.
2: XB1 is tanking as game attach rates are poor PS4 is winning that battle. Outside North America XB1 is doing poorly.
3: Windows sales are flat as Win 8 is a disaster.

MS are losing the battle due to their top heavy management structures not having people who understand the key markets. MS used to get by as Gates was running the show & people were scared of losing their jobs. Gates was behind Win 7 & Xbox 360. Ballmer contributed very little which is why he is no longer around.

So you see MS need to dig back in & make the PC mainstream viable again its under siege from Tablets, Smartphones, Ipads, Netbooks all not running a Windows OS if MS cannot keep hold of Windows they will not last in the same format as they are now.

So more focus on DX12 is just MS playing safe plus they told AMD Mantle would not be allowed on XB1.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...mantle-and-ps4-is-also-unlikely-is-mantle-doa

 

[Puppetmaster]

You mean the api that is still in alpha where bugs are expected. What is known though is when Mantle is working it's better than dx and smoother to boot no matter the fps. Yep if i was Nvidia it would be worrying me that an Api in alpha is running pretty good now. If all goes well Nvidia might even benefit from it you never know.

I believe regardless of how its running currently, I think most people on the forum would agree that its in everyone's interest for it to be working as intended. AMD users get increased performance which in turn creates competition. Whether that is in pricing or something equivalent from Nvidia who knows, can't be bad though.

If on the whole lower performance CPU's become much more attractive for gaming, it might give Intel a kick to do something worth while for a change.


Anything that creates competition in any part of PC's and games is a win for the consumer. Maybe all the 290 launch did was to make Nvidia drop the prices on the 780, who cares because the consumer wins. If all mantle does is force Microsoft to do something to help PC gamers, who cares because once again consumers win.

 

[PhysicsMan94]

I do think Microsoft will focus more on the PC gaming market given that they are losing the battle of the consoles against Sony's PS4, there is a lot of money in the PC gaming industry (in-fact I think I read recently that it is still worth more than the console market) and Microsoft does not want to lose its grip on that.

So with that in mind, I predict (and hope) that DX12 will be a big step up in terms of performance - and if it's Windows 9+ only, then so be it.

 

[Puppetmaster]

So with that in mind, I predict (and hope) that DX12 will be a big step up in terms of performance - and if it's Windows 9+ only, then so be it.

I agree with you and it being Windows 9+ only is fine with me but imo that relies on Windows 9 being good. Don't get me wrong Windows 8 has some decent things about it but myself and many others I know (Gamers and Non Gamers) just don't like it.