Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Preliminary results are coming in, talk of 90%+ in favour on an 80% turnout. That's >70% of the population in favour even if you count ever non voter as a no.

Personally I don't see how the US can question something that conclusive, are they now anti-democracy? Considering they used far far less legal means to acquire their own independence it's a bit of a double standard lol.
 
ubersonic said:
Preliminary results are coming in, talk of 90%+ in favour on an 80% turnout. That's >70% of the population in favour even if you count ever non voter as a no.

Personally I don't see how the US can question something that conclusive, are they now anti-democracy? Considering they used far far less legal means to acquire their own independence it's a bit of a double standard lol.
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Sounds questionable.

As does the fact that there was no option on the ballot for things to remain the same i.e Crimea as an autonomous region of Ukraine.Reports are that many of non-ethnic Russians (which make up 42% of the region's population) were to abstain.
 
I can not see how those numbers are possible, with just 58% of Crimea population being ethnically Russian. 90%+ in favour would mean vast majority of Tatars and 24% of ethnic Ukrainians voted pro separation and Russian annexation and that's about as likely as 90% of Alaska voting for separation from US and joining Canada.
 
ubersonic said:
Preliminary results are coming in, talk of 90%+ in favour on an 80% turnout. That's >70% of the population in favour even if you count ever non voter as a no.

Personally I don't see how the US can question something that conclusive, are they now anti-democracy? Considering they used far far less legal means to acquire their own independence it's a bit of a double standard lol.
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We can question plenty about the referendum - why were Russian troops on the streets of Crimea and in control of all strategic assets in the area during an in the run up to referendum?

Were the people of Crimea in full possession of the facts when asked to vote? One of the first thing Russian troops did was seize control of the local television stations. I can imagine the sort of Russia Today-style crap they were force fed.

Why was there no option to maintain the status quo on the ballot paper?

Was there a No campaign and how was it run? What electoral standards were in place for the election campaign? I notice that the pro-Russian campaign were basically portraying Ukraine as a Nazi regime, complete with swastikas - in the UK I expect a similar move would have been protested and a media-backlash.

Why were international observers prevented from observing polling?

As Stalin said, it's not how you vote that counts, it's how you count the vote.

Edit: one thing's for sure, if I had BP shares I'd be selling them first thing tomorrow.
 
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No, no, Mr Voter, please do feel free to vote in any manner you would like, we're just going to correlate your ballot form with your name and address so Mr Putin can thank you personally later for the result I think we all agree would be best all round.
 
Zethor said:
To avoid any confusion, the Russian flag proudly stood in each and every poll station:

http://rt.com/news/crimea-referendum-international-observers-114/
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That's Crimean flag, not Russian.

I also like wording on the poll question: Do you want to join Russia? Yes / Maybe.
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:rolleyes:

The actual options:

Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?

Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Crimea for further research if people are interested.
 
GAC said:
il just leave this here, democracy in action. even if your not from the crimea.

https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/445157314157215747
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Any more information on this? Many people in that region as well as other ex-soviet states will hold dual citizenship, I wonder if she has both or she is just Russian citizen.

By the way she is holding Ukranian passport but I presume that twitter had actual evidence that she is Russian citizen solely as opposed to just this photo of her holding Ukrainian passport?
 
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not sure but with this comment

she shows her temporary registration ID as a foreigner, which was enough for voting commission to let her vote.
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sounds like she is foreign, but who knows.

it does show how legitimate this vote is though if you can show a temp visa and get to vote on something. and of course this is if you ignore the fact it never went before the Ukrainian parliament.
 
GAC said:
not sure but with this comment



sounds like she is foreign, but who knows.

it does show how legitimate this vote is though if you can show a temp visa and get to vote on something. and of course this is if you ignore the fact it never went before the Ukrainian parliament.
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That thing she is holding, seems more like "Permanent Resident" Status rather than temporary holiday visa...

The new government has refused to follow a deal signed by all parties including western and Russian observers... They also said they will sign the EU deal before general elections, first law they passed is to remove status of Russian being official and removal of soviet statues a.k.a of Lenin....

I think you get the general idea, its not Putins fault that South and East are uprising but the new governments, they only have themselves to blame.

In eyes of Russian population in Ukraine, the government is fascist.... Who`s fault is that??
 
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Yeah looking up Ukrainian passport online it is different to what she is holding.

Would be nice to actually see what she is holding and what it is rather than throw quite speculative accusation from an extremely biased twitter source.
 
ubersonic said:
That's nonsense, they were asked two questions, if they wanted to join Russia, and if they wanted full autonomy from Ukraine (no to both = status quo).
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Doesn't seem particularly impartial if it's not immediately clear what to vote for if you want to remain part of Ukraine.

Also isn't "Are you in favour of" considered a leading question in referendums? I know the SNP originally wanted the question in this years referendum to be something like "Do you agree that Scotland should become an independent country?". The Electoral Commission told them they wouldn't accept that question.
 
Nerusy said:
The actual options:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Crimea for further research if people are interested.
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Which is the interesting part, because the "Constitution of Crimea in 1992" could means several things, including Crimea being an independent nation or Crimea being part of the Ukraine. It effectively gives the Russians a bit of wiggle room if the referendum somehow doesn't go their way.

However I am sure it will, they wouldn't hold it otherwise...
 
areksnumbr1sxylady said:
That thing she is holding, seems more like "Permanent Resident" Status rather than temporary holiday visa...

The new government has refused to follow a deal signed by all parties including western and Russian observers... They also said they will sign the EU deal before general elections, first law they passed is to remove status of Russian being official and removal of soviet statues a.k.a of Lenin....

I think you get the general idea, its not Putins fault that South and East are uprising but the new governments, they only have themselves to blame.
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They didn't pass a law to ban the Russian language - it got veto'd. I can't say I blame them wanting to get rid of Soviet era statues given what being part of the Soviet Union cost Ukraine.

I think we've already established that anyone who Russia invades "brings it on themselves".
 
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