Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
RDM said:
What those sort of voting numbers do you honestly think the vote isn't rigged? 95.5% of Crimea voting to re-join Russia? Something like 1/4 of the people living in Crimea are Ukranian...
Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26600492

While many of us will incline to think the vote is rigged we have no facts and currently throwing speculative accusations is pointless.

95.5% is scroza figure that he pulled out of his you know what, without providing any source. Edit: eh scorza didn't' lie this time though should have at least given source which is https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/445296951249362945

Exit poles show 93% of *participants* voted to join Russia. There's a difference between participation rate and what percentage of those participating voted to join Russia.

You are confusing participation rate with exit poll results.

Furthermore it could be argued that since people who oppose the referendum did not vote then it is very probable and reasonable that the actual results will be nearing 100% in favour of joining Russia.
 
Last edited:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...plomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-video

Wow American neo-con Zionists deciding who should be in charge of Ukraine. This is what the west calls Democracy. Do people know Victoria Nuland's husband is co-founder of Project for a new American century?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet

Yes it's all just one big conspiracy theory! What I think is they've ousted a legitimate government, hired snipers to make the situation worse and blame it on Viktor Yanukovych.


Shockingly these Ukrainian neo-Nazi's we see against Russia are simply being manipulated by the people they hate most.

I'd call this the Bolshevik revolution 2.0

Hopefully Ukrainian people can wake up before it's too late and see they've been used and join with their Russian brothers. Genetically and culturally most Russian's and Ukrainians aren't that different.
 
GospelTruth said:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...plomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-video

Wow American neo-con Zionists deciding who should be in charge of Ukraine. This is what the west calls Democracy. Do people know Victoria Nuland's husband is co-founder of Project for a new American century?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet

Yes it's all just one big conspiracy theory! What I think is they've ousted a legitimate government, hired snipers to make the situation worse and blame it on Viktor Yanukovych.


Shockingly these Ukrainian neo-Nazi's we see against Russia are simply being manipulated by the people they hate most.

I'd call this the Bolshevik revolution 2.0

Hopefully Ukrainian people can wake up before it's too late and see they've been used and join with their Russian brothers. Genetically and culturally most Russian's and Ukrainians aren't that different.
Click to expand...

Russians bug private conversations, accuse others of dirty tricks.

Are you getting paid to spread this propaganda ?
 
95.5% seems a bit ridiculous... unless they've only had ballots in from predominantly Russian areas so far...

Surely they'd expect to get 60% or maybe even 70% ish under current circumstances... if they have tampered with then its utterly pointless, a genuine lower result would have actually given them some credibility - this current result is bordering on North Korean style 100% turnout absurdity...
 
pcmedicni said:
If you have proof,show me,its simple.
Click to expand...

Surely as it's the Russians occupying the area with military force the omen is on them to prove that the region they have invaded legitimately wants to join them?

As far as I am concerned unless Russia can prove firstly that the vote isn't rigged, and secondly that the vote would have been exactly the same before they invaded then the referendum is null and void.

They can do neither of these things, the entire thing is a waste of time.
 
areksnumbr1sxylady said:
Even though I said I wont respond to you no more....

I`ll just leave this here.....

<snip>

This is in Berlin... No one EVER in Germany has even thought about removing this.

Ukranian-nationalist are so dumb that they are removing statues to the person who created Ukraine as a being, aka Lenin.... As many others said, if you want to get rid of Soviet memory, they should also blow up their roads,houses,factories because 95% of things in Ukraine were built by damn commies.
Click to expand...

That's not been removed because it's a war memorial. I don't see many statues of Lenin in Germany, or many other places in Eastern Europe for that matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statues_of_Vladimir_Lenin

95% of Ukraine might have been built by communists, but the Ukrainian economy is a complete basket case. Much like all the ex-soviet economies were after the fall of communism. The communists built a lot of crap, and the legacy of Lenin is something most would rather they didn't repeat or remember.

The difference is most ex-communist countries (east Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungry and the Baltic States) moved on. The Ukraine has always been tainted by it's relationship with Russia. Second rate industrial contracts and subsidised energy from Russia is charity, not a prosperous future.

Ukrain looks towards it's neighbour Poland with envy. They made clean break from Russia. They joined the EU, and their economy is a huge success story, even in the current economic climate. 20% growth since 2008.

They have a strong democracy, part of the biggest single market on earth. They have the freedom to travel, work and educate their children in Europe. They have an average living standard 3 times what they enjoy in Ukraine.

It's not hard to see why many in Ukraine have had enough. They've had bad government (both pro Western and pro Russian), but their best chance of change involves joining the EU and the political scrutiny and economic opportunity that brings with it.

Nationalism in the Ukraine is a symptom of bad government and economic insecurity.
 
Last edited:
Nerusy said:
95.5% is scroza figure that he pulled out of his you know what, without providing any source. Edit: eh scorza didn't' lie this time though should have at least given source which is https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/445296951249362945
Click to expand...

I gave my source, original post from me. "BBC Breaking News is that Crimean election officials are reporting that 95.5% of voters in the referendum voted in favour of joining Russia with half the ballots in. It's like they can't even be bothered maintaining the pretence that this is a fair referendum."
 
Nerusy said:
I have to correct you because you always show extreme bias and withholding of information, whereas my posts did not disregard the detail you talk about here. I am mostly concerned with facts and view on the subject from different balanced prospective.
Click to expand...

What information did I withhold? It seems to me that you're more interested in half-truths and personal attacks. I may have been mistaken about whether the Ukrainian language bill was a new law or a repeal of an old one, but to suggest that the new regime in Kiev banned the Russian language is not a fact - they didn't because the PM vetoed the bill.

Nerusy said:
Edit: Also in case this post was burried in

This is actually quite a brilliant crash course on what is happening and why.
Click to expand...

Pardon me if I'm not exactly going to take the opinion of a politician in a far-left party as GospelTruth.
 
Here's a decent infographic explaining the difference between a free and fair referendum (2014 Scottish Independence) and the one we've just seen take place in the Crimea: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi5kLyFCEAAkNYh.jpg

Bi5kLyFCEAAkNYh.jpg
 
I have not been following this thread too much and it is now a lot to read and tease out information from. So can I ask a really simple question and excuse me is it seems stupid.

This referendum in Crimea; though it was hastily put together and there are Russian troops on the ground etc etc, it does seem to me from what is being reported that no matter whether it took 2 weeks or 2 years, the people there seem to be pro-Russian (something that has been galvanized and reinforced with the events in Kiev) and so there would have been a majority for joining Russia anyway. So should we not respect this?

The Western powers have branded this illegal, undiplomatic etc etc and will not recognize it. However we will recognize a coop and deposing of the Ukrainian government as diplomatic?

It seems to me, the referendum, done without bloodshed, while not good and ideal, is better and more diplomatic than what happened in the Ukraine over the passed few months which the West do not seem to have a problem with.

Am I missing something?
 
Last edited:
m4rk84 said:
Surely as it's the Russians occupying the area with military force the omen is on them to prove that the region they have invaded legitimately wants to join them?

As far as I am concerned unless Russia can prove firstly that the vote isn't rigged, and secondly that the vote would have been exactly the same before they invaded then the referendum is null and void.

They can do neither of these things, the entire thing is a waste of time.
Click to expand...

I will make this simple for you,show me the evidence that the vote was tampered with,just something,anything.Until then its just your uninformed opinion.
 
scorza said:
What information did I withhold? It seems to me that you're more interested in half-truths and personal attacks. I may have been mistaken about whether the Ukrainian language bill was a new law or a repeal of an old one, but to suggest that the new regime in Kiev banned the Russian language is not a fact - they didn't because the PM vetoed the bill.



Pardon me if I'm not exactly going to take the opinion of a politician in a far-left party as GospelTruth.
Click to expand...
He provides a lot of factual development in the geopolitics since the collapelse of the soviet union as well as outlook from both sides, once again you show your extreme bias disregarding evertything he said just because it goes against your naive view of things. As for personal insults, are you not the one who calls everybody who disagrees with you a Putinist? Don't make me laugh :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
RaMDOM said:
I have not been following this thread too much and it is now a lot to read and tease out information from. So can I ask a really simple question and excuse me is it seems stupid.

This referendum in Crimea; though it was hastily put together and there are Russian troops on the ground etc etc, it does seem to me from what is being reported that no matter whether it took 2 weeks or 2 years, the people there seem to be pro-Russian (something that has been galvanized and reinforced with the events in Kiev) and so there would have been a majority for joining Russia anyway. So should we not respect this?
Click to expand...

Essentially this is a simple land grab by Russia. There is no doubt that the armed gunmen in control of Crimea are Russian soldiers - maybe as many as 25,000 of them. In Crimea they are in charge of the parliament, the power supplies, the roads, border controls, the media. I tend to agree that a legitimate referendum would still have returned the same overall result, but for some reason Putin can't allow that to happen, he needs this land grab completed quickly I guess, while Ukraine is in chaos ideally.

RaMDOM said:
The Western powers have branded this illegal, undiplomatic etc etc and will not recognize it. However we will recognize a coop and deposing of the Ukrainian government as diplomatic?
Click to expand...

This wasn't really a coup, there were large scale protests against the Ukrainian PM, which turned to bloodshed when snipers started shooting. The former Ukrainian PM fled the country and was later impeached by the democratically elected parliament in Kiev, and replaced according to the Ukrainian constitution. The new Ukrainian PM even held a position in the last government.

RaMDOM said:
It seems to me, the referendum, done without bloodshed, while not good and ideal, is better and more diplomatic than what happened in the Ukraine over the passed few months which the West do not seem to have a problem with.

Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

In the short term maybe, but in the long term I think the people of Crimea, and anyone else under Kremlin rule will be worse off. William Hague is absolutely right when he calls the referendum a mockery of democracy and that cannot be in anyone's interests. I just hope that Ukraine gets the chance to reform itself and determine it's own future - a new general election there is scheduled for May I believe, let's hope that can go ahead as planned.
 
scorza said:
Here's a decent infographic explaining the difference between a free and fair referendum (2014 Scottish Independence) and the one we've just seen take place in the Crimea: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi5kLyFCEAAkNYh.jpg

Bi5kLyFCEAAkNYh.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow,the propaganda is strong in you.Nobody elected the new Ukraine government into power they used violence and murder to impose their new regime.They have no constitution as it went up in flames when they used violence to obtain their power,nowhere in the Ukraine constitution did it say you can overthrow the elected government.
 
Nerusy said:
He provides a lot of factual development in the geopolitics since the collapelse of the soviet union as well as outlook from both sides, once again you show your extreme bias disregarding evertythig he said just because it goes against your naive view of things. As for personal insults, are you not the one who calls everybody who disagrees with you a Putinist? Don't make me laugh :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You see, I think that's the difference between you and I. Whereas you seem to be happy to just read anything (from selective sources of course) and present it as "fact". I tend to qualify the source, look around to see what other sources are saying and form a judgement based on a holistic view of the available information.

For example, Russia Today says that the armed gunmen in Crimea are a self-defence militia, you say that it's a fact that the armed gunmen in Crimea are a self-defence militia. I read the RT report, look around at other news sources, the BBC, the Guardian, the Telegraph, Twitter and my judgement is that these gunmen are actually Russian soldiers.
 
scorza said:
You see, I think that's the difference between you and I. Whereas you are happy to just read anything (from selective sources of course) and present it as "fact". I tend to qualify the source, look around to see what other sources are saying and form a judgement based on a holistic view of the available information.

For example, Russia Today says that the armed gunmen in Crimea are a self-defence militia, you say that it's a fact that the armed gunmen in Crimea are a self-defence militia. I read the RT report, look around at other news sources, the BBC, the Guardian, the Telegraph, Twitter and my judgement is that these are actually Russian soldiers.
Click to expand...

Read what he said before dismissing him, all of what he says is factual, as in we have historical records to prove that these things happened. The difference between me and you is that I provide unbiased facts and then balanced outlooks from both sides whereas you disregard anything that doesn't fit your view that west are angels and ruskies are evil. I already proved many times your bias, just one the last page you propose to ignore Rada vote on the subject. You really don't care about the truth nor do you seem to have basic knowledge in politics and economics
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom