'Contact lost' with Malaysia Airlines plane

Hyburnate said:
You got a precedent where this happens? I don't believe that a fire that took out the ACARS and transponder + who knows what else. Would just go out and allow the pilot to fly on for 7 hours. Sure the fire may go out but not without doing some big damage to the aircraft.
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The pilot did not fly on for seven hours though as he was dead by this point. The pilot could have put it on auto to fly into the middle of the sea when he realised they were all screwed. Better than it flying and crashing over land.
 
Hyburnate said:
You got a precedent where this happens? I don't believe that a fire that took out the ACARS and transponder + who knows what else. Would just go out and allow the pilot to fly on for 7 hours. Sure the fire may go out but not without doing some big damage to the aircraft.
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To add to what I previously said, didn't the plane change heading before the transponder dropping? If there was a fire he should have tapped in the emergency squawk codes before pulling fuses.

e; Actually the transponder had already gone before the co-pilot made last communication with ATC from what I'm reading.

PapaLazaru said:
The pilot did not fly on for seven hours though as he was dead by this point. The pilot could have put it on auto to fly into the middle of the sea when he realised they were all screwed. Better than it flying and crashing over land.
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If he were dead, what about the altitude changes?
 
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Hyburnate said:
To add to what I previously said, didn't the plane change heading before the transponder dropping? If there was a fire he should have tapped in the emergency squawk codes before pulling fuses.
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nope get the damn fire out at all costs is the first thing to do.

what are ground going to do, send you happy thoughts?
 
The 777 has two transponders one fed direct from the battery bus bar and one from the services bus bar. For both of them to fail is very unlikely. If one fails and brings up a warning the pilot can then turn on the secondary transponder and continue.

For both to be disabled it would almost certainly mean it has been done deliberately or a very sudden catastrophic failure of many systems.

Also transponders will only work if there is ATC radar coverage most of the world including the oceans do not have transponder coverage. They only really become relevant when the Aircraft is close to land. Over the ocean they would be using satcom and or datalink.
 
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Tefal said:
nope get the damn fire out at all costs is the first thing to do.

what are ground going to do, send you happy thoughts?
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Is it not a legal requirement for all pilots to let ATC know of the emergency on board as soon as possible? If he knew he was going down surely he could have made radio contact. Also, wouldn't the Auto Pilot disconnect if it was getting confused with the systems being off and also surely other things will have been trashed in this fire.

MOOGLEYS said:
The 777 has two transponders one fed direct from the battery bus bar and one from the services bus bar. For both of them to fail is very unlikely. If one fails and brings up a warning the pilot can then turn on the secondary transponder and continue.
For both to be disabled it would almost certainly mean it has been done deliberately.
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Taking your information that it would give a warning, the co-pilot will have seen this warning and therefore should have told ATC when he was talking to them.

e;
Taken from /u/Siris_Boy_Toy
So the theory requires a fire that was implausibly specific in its effects. It would have had to take out the transponder, the ACARS, and all the humans without affecting the FMS, the autopilot, or any sensors, wires, flight control systems, feedback loops or anything else that would alert the autopilot to a critical problem and cause it to stop flying the plane.

On top of that, the fire would have to have put itself out after doing all that catastrophic, but very specific, damage. It would have had to be one very smart fire. A fire that knew how to fly a plane, if you like.
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I really do wish that this was just an accident, for the families sake but in my eyes it's unlikely.
 
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MOOGLEYS said:
The 777 has two transponders one fed direct from the battery bus bar and one from the services bus bar. For both of them to fail is very unlikely. If one fails and brings up a warning the pilot can then turn on the secondary transponder and continue.
For both to be disabled it would almost certainly mean it has been done deliberately.
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which is what the pilot says is called for if there's an electrical fire pul lthem all and star tswitchign things back on ins sequence
 
kindai said:
Most logical theory so far.
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Explain this then.

Langkawi is roughly in the centre between Igari and Vampi. What about the other waypoints? It didn't just overshoot it, it made two other turns.

7xsJBS9.jpg
 
Lysander said:
Explain this then.

Langkawi is roughly in the centre between Igari and Vampi. What about the other waypoints? It didn't just overshoot it, it made two other turns.

7xsJBS9.jpg
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Indeed also several good/better options on the nearer side of the island on slightly different angles with less risk of the plane coming down in a residential area (though obviously how logical and/or what other requirements the pilots had in mind is another story).
 
Rroff said:
Indeed also several good/better options on the nearer side of the island on slightly different angles with less risk of the plane coming down in a residential area (though obviously how logical and/or what other requirements the pilots had in mind is another story).
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Juat noticed there's an airport at Phuket and in the Andaman's. Each waypoint points directly at an runway. After overshooting Langkai, Phuket is the next option.
 
What does a controlled ditch into the sea look like survivability wise for all crew and passengers?

reading the goodfellow analysis I cant really fault it, it all logically makes sense. and I've thought for a while the plane continued on autopilot not necessarily with someone flying it for 7 hours.

Maybe going to 45,000 feet did put the fire out but due to smoke at first and then a lack of air, the passengers at least had suffocated by this point. perhaps it did stall and the pilots did everything they could to get to flat and were both overcome shortly after and one hit the autopilot switch to avoid the plane from ditching into a populated area and instead into the sea...
 
The Running Man said:
Maybe going to 45,000 feet did put the fire out but due to smoke at first and then a lack of air, the passengers at least had suffocated by this point. perhaps it did stall and the pilots did everything they could to get to flat and were both overcome shortly after and one hit the autopilot switch to avoid the plane from ditching into a populated area and instead into the sea...
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For the last time you don't climb to 45000 feet in a 777 to put out a fire unless you are retarded chimp. As for the rest of your theory, **** me if it wasn't so tragic I'd be laughing.

The cabin get's 15 minutes of air on masks, the flight crew get more than enough to get to 45,000 feet and back to the ground twice and even if this ****ing frankly lauaghable theory was correct there would be more than enough time to make a comms call.
 
Lysander said:
Juat noticed there's an airport at Phuket and in the Andaman's. Each waypoint points directly at an runway. After overshooting Langkai, Phuket is the next option.
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possibly mountains or terrain the pilot didnt feel safe tackling with the plane i nwhatever stae it was in.
 
The Running Man said:
What does a controlled ditch into the sea look like survivability wise for all crew and passengers?

reading the goodfellow analysis I cant really fault it, it all logically makes sense. and I've thought for a while the plane continued on autopilot not necessarily with someone flying it for 7 hours.

Maybe going to 45,000 feet did put the fire out but due to smoke at first and then a lack of air, the passengers at least had suffocated by this point. perhaps it did stall and the pilots did everything they could to get to flat and were both overcome shortly after and one hit the autopilot switch to avoid the plane from ditching into a populated area and instead into the sea...
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With a known fire on-board the crew should be looking to land asap or looking at a suitable place to ditch the aircraft. They would declare an emergency on which ever systems that are operational. Even if the fire was brought under control they would have unknown possible damage and would still land asap.

I'm not really seeing much in the fire theory tbh.
 
MOOGLEYS said:
I'm not really seeing much in the fire theory tbh.
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There's nothing in it. Every system has redundancy. Even if a fire started in one area and tripped off a system or two they would still have time to make a call. Even if they did the absurd and climbed from 37,000 to 45000ft that climb would take minutes. More than enough time for a call to be made.

I must look in our QRH when I get back to work on Thurday to see the procedure for an equipment bay fire. I wonder if it says climb to 45,000ft asap and then dive bomb....
 
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