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Which card

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The problem with Anand's benches is that they baseline the results from their first (and often only) review of the card. So like back in the day when the 7970 was released on rubbish drivers the performance of it was shown up against later released nvidia cards when in reality the two cards performed almost identically on more recent drivers.

The same is true this time round. The 780 has been out for a long time and there's been at least a couple of notable driver improvements since then so the performance shown on the Anand bench facility is no longer relevant. Indeed the 290/X has also seen improvements so basically it's a case of finding a review where the two have been both benched recently.

With respect to the two cards in question they perform almost identically so it's the other things you look at such as reliability, faults, additional features, cost etc.
 
Old Wino said:
290's are a lot cheaper and run games faster, no contest.
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Sometimes the 780 beats the 290, other times the 290 Beats the 780, they are very similar in performance.

We can argue all day about which reviewers and benchmarks should be taken as fact and which ones should be ignored, its rediculess arguing about one or the other getting more points or FPS in this benchmark on that review site.
The fact that we can all pull up sites and benchmarks to contradict each-other all day long is a testament to the fact that all that matters between these two cards is price.

In that the 290 is more GPU for a lot less money.
 
humbug said:
Sometimes the 780 beats the 290, other times the 290 Beats the 780, they are very similar in performance.

We can argue all day about which reviewers and benchmarks should be taken as fact and which ones should be ignored, its rediculess arguing about one or the other getting more points or FPS in this benchmark on that review site.
The fact that we can all pull up sites and benchmarks to contradict each-other all day long is a testament to the fact that all that matters between these two cards is price.

In that the 290 is more GPU for a lot less money.
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Well Whyscotty has linked to user bench runs, so they hold a lot more weight than biased, paid off reviewers. You just need to look at those results to see what can do what and go from there. Take into account that each has its own merits such as 'Mantle, TrueAudio' for AMD and 'PhysX, GameWorks, ShadowPlay, G-Sync' for nVidia.
 
Gregster said:
Well Whyscotty has linked to user bench runs, so they hold a lot more weight than biased, paid off reviewers. You just need to look at those results to see what can do what and go from there. Take into account that each has its own merits such as 'Mantle, TrueAudio' for AMD and 'PhysX, GameWorks, ShadowPlay, G-Sync' for nVidia.
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Lets be honest though on this forum there are many more water cooled 7 series cards compaired to r9's. The only water cooled r9 guy that really pushes his hardware to the max is Ranger but he never really benches games.

I think if you look at air cooled results its a lot closer and then think about playing through a game for hours on end its even closer.

You can pretty much put it like this.

290/780

290x/Titan

780ti

That's for 1080p up to 1600p

At 4k then the 290x and 780ti are around equal. I would probably even throw Titan in there.
 
TheRealDeal said:
Lets be honest though on this forum there are many more water cooled 7 series cards compaired to r9's. The only water cooled r9 guy that really pushes his hardware to the max is Ranger but he never really benches games.

I think if you look at air cooled results its a lot closer and then think about playing through a game for hours on end its even closer.

You can pretty much put it like this.

290/780

290x/Titan

780ti

That's for 1080p up to 1600p

At 4k then the 290x and 780ti are around equal. I would probably even throw Titan in there.
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Very true that. Kaap and Ranger are the only water cooled 290 users that post benchmarks, and Ranger only posts non gaming benchmarks, aside from a hitman bench run.
 
Well my argument was in response to Humbug saying "We can argue all day about which reviewers and benchmarks should be taken as fact and which ones should be ignored, its rediculess arguing about one or the other getting more points or FPS in this benchmark on that review site.
The fact that we can all pull up sites and benchmarks to contradict each-other all day long is a testament to the fact that all that matters between these two cards is price".

For me, it is about user reviews and water or air is irrelevant when there is so many cards benched and you get a good idea of what card can do what. A few stock runs from both in there as well and someone looking for a new GPU can look at the "Game" bench results and see what real users/gamers get. Picking up water cooling again just sounds petty.
 
LtMatt said:
Very true that. Kaap and Ranger are the only water cooled 290 users that post benchmarks, and Ranger only posts non gaming benchmarks, aside from a hitman bench run.
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Yea forgot Kaap but i think Kaap is pretty sensible compared to Ranger who is on the verge of blowing his hardware up like a lot of the Nvidia guys.
 
Gregster said:
Well my argument was in response to Humbug saying "We can argue all day about which reviewers and benchmarks should be taken as fact and which ones should be ignored, its rediculess arguing about one or the other getting more points or FPS in this benchmark on that review site.
The fact that we can all pull up sites and benchmarks to contradict each-other all day long is a testament to the fact that all that matters between these two cards is price".

For me, it is about user reviews and water or air is irrelevant when there is so many cards benched and you get a good idea of what card can do what. A few stock runs from both in there as well and someone looking for a new GPU can look at the "Game" bench results and see what real users/gamers get. Picking up water cooling again just sounds petty.
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It's not petty its the facts and you have to base the results on facts not fiction. You would rather base your facts on watercooled souped up Nvidia machines and i would rather base my results on all cards in the same machine on stock and oem coolers which will be the majority. User reviews are very good as well but there is so many variables it's impossible to compare most of the time. your machine pretty much shows a Titan at its best barring Ln2. It's very good to see what you can get but when advising most users it really has no baring on reality.
 
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TheRealDeal said:
It's not petty its the facts and you have to base the results on facts not fiction. You would rather base your facts on watercooled souped up Nvidia machines and i would rather base my results on all cards in the same machine on stock and oem coolers which will be the majority. User reviews are very good as well but there is so many variables it's impossible to compare most of the time. your machine pretty much shows a Titan at its best barring Ln2. It's very good to see what you can get but when advising most users it really has no baring on reality.
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Easy tiger :D I am merely saying that the results are there for all to see. I am not trying to sell anyone anything or sway anyone either way. The people who have an interest in purchasing a new card can look on our forums and see what is what and what to expect with each card in terms of performance possibilities.

on the verge of blowing his hardware up like a lot of the Nvidia guys.
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That has proper made me laugh and what on earth gives you the idea that the nVidia guys are on the verge of blowing up their hardware. Pretty desperate or wishful thinking I say :D
 
It always goes the same way when these kinds of discussions / advice come up, Someone always says 290 is faster and you get more gpu for your money, Then the questions are asked about actual game bench threads on here then it's all of a sudden it's equal between the 290 and the 780 but the 290 is cheaper. I then would rather agree with this than bring up the 780 being the faster gaming card in general.

Yes it is only a few fps here and there but at the end of the day generally a 780 is faster than a 290 as our own benchmark threads show.

If you don't include heaven and any of the 3dmark or catzilla benches and concentrate only on games then the cards generally at the top are nvidia water cooled or air , It's just plain fact.

The same can be said for 290x vs 290pro's, Is the extra money worth it for x amount of gain between the 2 cards? The answer is yes to some and no to others, I personally would pay £80 more for an 290x than a plain 290.
 
Gregster said:
Well my argument was in response to Humbug saying "We can argue all day about which reviewers and benchmarks should be taken as fact and which ones should be ignored, its rediculess arguing about one or the other getting more points or FPS in this benchmark on that review site.
The fact that we can all pull up sites and benchmarks to contradict each-other all day long is a testament to the fact that all that matters between these two cards is price".

For me, it is about user reviews and water or air is irrelevant when there is so many cards benched and you get a good idea of what card can do what. A few stock runs from both in there as well and someone looking for a new GPU can look at the "Game" bench results and see what real users/gamers get. Picking up water cooling again just sounds petty.
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TheRealDeal said:
It's not petty its the facts and you have to base the results on facts not fiction. You would rather base your facts on watercooled souped up Nvidia machines and i would rather base my results on all cards in the same machine on stock and oem coolers which will be the majority. User reviews are very good as well but there is so many variables it's impossible to compare most of the time. your machine pretty much shows a Titan at its best barring Ln2. It's very good to see what you can get but when advising most users it really has no baring on reality.
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An example of the difference between an air cooled 290 score and a water cooled 290 score, and a similar 780 water cooled score.

Tomb Raider
Uncle Petey - 290 @1260/1625, 13.12. 147.5 -Water Cooled
LtMatt - 290p @1270/1625, 13.12. 135.9 - Air Cooled
pgi947 - 780 @1254/6400, 331.65. 133.4 - Water Cooled

12 FPS difference between mine and petey's score on the same drivers and im using higher cpu, gpu and dram clocks/timings. Water definitely makes a noticeable difference.
 
Gregster said:
Well Whyscotty has linked to user bench runs, so they hold a lot more weight than biased, paid off reviewers. You just need to look at those results to see what can do what and go from there. Take into account that each has its own merits such as 'Mantle, TrueAudio' for AMD and 'PhysX, GameWorks, ShadowPlay, G-Sync' for nVidia.
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Thats clutching at straws, Valley and Heaven 4 favour Nvidia, if all you want it for is to Bench Synthetic applications then the extra £70 for the 780 might be worth it to you, whats more they are no more reliable than your so called "Paid off reviewers" with Bencher's constantly trying to out do eachother there is no guarantee that none of them are Driver IQ hacking to gain points over a rival.
Nor is using hacked BIOS and setting the GPU on a suicide run anything like normal everyday usage.

Saying Reviewers should be ignored is one thing, but then also trying pass off the benching that goes in around here as representative of normal everyday 24/7 use is a stretch way to far.
 
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Gregster said:
Easy tiger :D I am merely saying that the results are there for all to see. I am not trying to sell anyone anything or sway anyone either way. The people who have an interest in purchasing a new card can look on our forums and see what is what and what to expect with each card in terms of performance possibilities.



That has proper made me laugh and what on earth gives you the idea that the nVidia guys are on the verge of blowing up their hardware. Pretty desperate or wishful thinking I say :D
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Sorry if that came accross strong was just stating my opinion. When i see clocks 100mhz or more above the usual watercooled results i start to think pop lol. Was it not you that fried a titan. Might be getting my wires crossed.
 
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