Five-year-old boy banned from church playgroup because he likes to wear princess dresses.

ivrytwr3 said:
No it isn't in some countries. Children as young as 6 have had it done.
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I'd be amazed if that's actually true, but if you can provide sources to back up what you're saying here then I'll concede the point.

It still doesn't answer my question which was - who is talking about surgery? The child, who still apparently uses male pronouns and a male name (unlike most if not all trans people), is wearing dresses. That's all. No where in article is anyone talking about the child identifying as female, or wanting to transition.
 
The kid looks ridiculous and therefore he is bound to be ridiculed. He likes to dress as a girl because he is surrounded by girls. Rather than help him discover his true identity, his mother indulges him by treating him as a girl. When he is old enough to make considered decisions, then let him choose; but for heavens sake give him a chance.
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ivrytwr3 said:
If you're a guy, go to work tomorrow in a dress. That's your choice, unfortunately as a parent you have to instill values and beliefs and to be responsible. I am all for free rights and free will, but just no, would i send my kid out in a dress and i most certainly wouldn't buy them a 100 of them.
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I'm not likely to do that either, but it simply isn't unnatural.
 
I see nothing wrong here,

I think a few people still believe sexuality is a life choice and that people get a chance to make informed decisions about it....
 
Whilst you're right Xordium there's a difference between ambiguous genitalia correction and mad parents.

Now this child may have gender identity issues however I think the family would need a pretty good look at from a child protection point of view.
 
Xordium said:
Err, no it is not illegal it perfectly legal. It is done in this country on neonates. I know I've anaesthetised them for the surgery.
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"fixing" things for medical reasons isn't quite the same as chopping a toddler's bits off because his mum wants him to be a girl ;)
 
Xordium said:
Err, no it is not illegal it perfectly legal. It is done in this country on neonates. I know I've anaesthetised them for the surgery.
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Only on intersexed children because as a society we can't stand people who don't fit neatly into the binary gender system,

Would you have anaesthetised a 5 year child born with am anatomically correct and healthy male body who stated they wanted to be female?

Edit: beaten to it.
 
Minstadave said:
Whilst you're right Xordium there's a difference between ambiguous genitalia correction and mad parents.

Now this child may have gender identity issues however I think the family would need a pretty good look at from a child protection point of view.
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I agree. I was merely correcting the false statement. Alarm bells would be ringing loudly all over this one. However, the distinction is not really that he wears a dress though is it which is what someone people are saying is wrong. Like everything it's hardly a black and white thing - there is scale of expectation around gender role expectation and experimentation. However, this one is completely off the end of the scale.
 
phonemonkey said:
Would you have anaesthetised a 5 year child born with am anatomically correct and healthy male body who stated they wanted to be female?

Edit: beaten to it.
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Male phenotype or genotype? Being flippant!

Of course not is the answer as a carte blanche rule. Such a person could not display the cognition to make such a decision. However, their parents could if the medical team believed it to be in the best interests. You would have to look at it on a case by case basis.

Haggisman said:
"fixing" things for medical reasons isn't quite the same as chopping a toddler's bits off because his mum wants him to be a girl ;)
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And nowhere do we have an indication this is like that. And actually historically speaking a great deal of 'medical fixing' was born of faulty science, misogyny and social expectation and norms especially from a religious point of view. The line here is a great deal more blurred than you would think. On the balance of assessment I would be more inclined to condone gender reassignment through choice (within cognitive assessment) than 'medical fixing' which is done more as a matter of surgical convenience. However, over the last 10 years the drive for early surgery has been pushed back.
 
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Xordium said:
Male phenotype or genotype? Being flippant!

Of course not is the answer as a carte blanche rule. Such a person could not display the cognition to make such a decision. However, their parents could if the medical team believed it to be in the best interests. You would have to look at it on a case by case basis
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Not intentionally so. I'm aware my wording was poor, but I couldn't think of how else to describe what I meant. I'm no clinician, or biologist.

You have however, answered the question I intended to ask, so thank you. I'm surprised that it would be even considered at such a young age. From my (admittedly limited research) it indicated that surgery and hormones required for medical transition were only to be given to those over 18. Perhaps I've confused 'best practice guidelines' with 'legal'. I apologise, it was not my intent to mislead.

I agree that it's really irrelevant in this case, as (and as I've stated before) the child has made no indications of desiring transition, he simply wants to wear dresses.

I also agree that some social services input may be prudent, since the scale of his experimentation goes beyond what we would expect as normal. I was only arguing that it's the number of dresses and high heels he has, and not the fact he wears dresses, that should be causing concern.
 
phonemonkey said:
Not intentionally so. I'm aware my wording was poor, but I couldn't think of how else to describe what I meant. I'm no clinician, or biologist.
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I meant I was being flippant not you!

phonemonkey said:
From my (admittedly limited research) it indicated that surgery and hormones required for medical transition were only to be given to those over 18.
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And that would be the norm unless of course there was harm being caused then you would weigh the two potential harms up and guess which would do the least damage. I think as a rule you would say consider from 12 upwards - ie meeting criteria for Gillick/Fraser competence. However, say if for a child of 8 was self harming to the extent they were threatening their life then what alternative would you have - sedate them for 10 years?
 
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TwsT said:
I see nothing wrong here,

I think a few people still believe sexuality is a life choice and that people get a chance to make informed decisions about it....
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A 5 year old gets chance to make an 'informed decision'... while his mother eggs him on to buy womens clothes?

Ahh GD, home of intelligent life.
 
Ohhh my God, the Mother !!!!!!

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Richdog said:
A 5 year old gets chance to make an 'informed decision'... while his mother eggs him on to buy womens clothes?

Ahh GD, home of intelligent life.
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Why can't a 5 year old decide what he or she wears? If they don't conform to societal expectations, who are they hurting? They'll likely develop more socially acceptable forms of dress and behaviour as they become more mature, and develop socially.

I accept that this is am extreme case but the point remains, why can't a 5 year old boy chose to wear a dress?
 
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