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Why 'Watch Dogs' Is Bad News For AMD Users -- And Potentially The Entire PC Gaming Ecosystem

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humbug said:
5 developers? i didn't even know it was that many. 5 is significant.

Thats what we are debating here, here we also have UbiSoft programmers, IE those using GW saying the have lost respect for Nvidia for locking them out.

Its not just AMD saying it, its the very people who have to work with the GW software saying it.
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2 UbiSoft developers. I suspect they have more than 2. You could probably find 2 people in most owrk places that don't like something that others in the company do, or at least don't have strong feelings about. As we often say here regarding AMD balck screen issues, it's usually those with problems that make the most noise. Doesn't mean there aren't plenty more that are happy.
Also, if Ubisoft developers are so bad at optimising games (GW or otherwise) how good are they at what they do and how much weight should their opinion carry?
 
humbug said:
I'm glad Roy said it in Twitter, he prommised to keep us apprised of that meeting, i will hold him to that and you do the same. lets see what happens :)
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But, the bottleneck is not CPU bound, but GPU.

So what good is Mantle going to do exactly?

The problem is that the code has been hidden and obfusticated from AMD, meaning they cant optimize their driver as well as they would like.

Don't see how Mantle is going to solve anything there, UNLESS Ubisoft work with AMD for a solution, which Im sure Nvidia wont be too happy about.
 
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The Game developer can modify TressFX to suit a GPU vendor ^^^^

And Intel asking for Mantle secrets is a bit rich, if they want to develop their own low level API they should do that instead of coping AMD as usual.

opethdisciple said:
But, the bottleneck is not CPU bound, but GPU.

So what good is Mantle going to do exactly?

The problem is that the code has been hidden and obfusticated from AMD, meaning they cant optimize their driver as well as they would like.

Don't see how Mantle is going to solve anything there, UNLESS Ubisoft work with AMD for a solution, which Im sure Nvidia wont be too happy about.
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lol, you have no idea... :p




I'm CPU bound in parts of this, Mantle will clear that right up :)
 
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opethdisciple said:
But thats a different game...
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Yes, it proves Mantle makes a difference on any CPU.

The reason there is no difference (i7 vs i5) in WD is because DirectX only runs a couple of CPU threads.

Mantle runs 8 at least. so it will make use of the i7 threads that the i5 does not have.

Its not GPU Bound, if it was all CPU's would be at the same level.
 
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humbug said:
Yes, it proves Mantle makes a difference on any CPU.

The reason there is no difference (i7 vs i5) in WD is because DirectX only runs a couple of CPU threads.

Mantle runs 8 at least. so it will make use of the i7 threads that the i5 does not have.

Its not GPU Bound, if it was all CPU's would be at the same level.
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Directx can use 8 threads, you're making it sound like it can't as a blanket statement.
And Mantle doesn't use 8 as a blanket statement, i3 mantle benches higher in thief than an fx83 with an r9 290 280x according to cats benchmark

Also, gpu bound doesn't mean all CPU's have to be the same in performance, I do however believe that watchdogs is quite CPU bound though.
 
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humbug said:
Yes, it proves Mantle makes a difference on any CPU.

The reason there is no difference (i7 vs i5) in WD is because DirectX only runs a couple of CPU threads.

Mantle runs 8 at least. so it will make use of the i7 threads that the i5 does not have.

Its not GPU Bound, if it was all CPU's would be at the same level.
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Watch dogs uses 8 threads for me :confused:

iirc the most active threads are ~70% utilised while others are around the 40% mark.
 
humbug said:
Tell that to this guy. :D
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The advantage Mantle has over DirectX will be gone once DX12 is being used.

Once that happens what will be the driving force for doing the additional work needed to add Mantle support to a title using DX12?

If a title could use Mantle instead of DX12 it would be a different story, but it can't.

DirectX is a must have component while Mantle isn't.
 
nashathedog said:
The advantage Mantle has over DirectX will be gone once DX12 is being used.

Once that happens what will be the driving force for doing the additional work needed to add Mantle support to a title using DX12?

If a title could use Mantle instead of DX12 it would be a different story, but it can't.

DirectX is a must have component while Mantle isn't.
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Its not the first time this conversation has been had.

I hope DX12 is all its cracked up to be, i have no doubt it will be better than DX11, it seriously needs to be.

Some Game Developers have already suggested DX12 can't be what Mantle is, at least not to the same API to Metal level, we will have to wait and see.

It can only be a good thing if it is, and if Mantle goes away once DX12 gets here, so what? all hale Microsoft? it may go away if its done its job, if DX12 is yet another Microsoft Damp Squib its here to stay.
 
A lot of people seem to be bitter about mantle, raving on about its demise due to something that wont even be available for a loooong while.

If mantle is completely replaced by dx12 because of how awesome it is, then good but until then at least i have the option of using mantle or dx11, and thank god because dx12 is far off.

Oh and while i obviously cant speak for this game, thief benchmark sees substantial gains for me on an i7 and a single 290x on mantle (difference of 10fps on minimums and not far off 10% averages).

If dx 12 (when it eventually gets here) removes the need for mantle, all the better but until then there is nothing better for my minimums without having to go into my wallet.
 
This guy compiled a rather short (lol?) list of bugs from the game. Disgusting really when you remember it was delayed by ~8 months to 'polish'

 
Avenged7Fold said:
A lot of people seem to be bitter about mantle, raving on about its demise due to something that wont even be available for a loooong while.

If mantle is completely replaced by dx12 because of how awesome it is, then good but until then at least i have the option of using mantle or dx11, and thank god because dx12 is far off.

Oh and while i obviously cant speak for this game, thief benchmark sees substantial gains for me on an i7 and a single 290x on mantle (difference of 10fps on minimums and not far off 10% averages).
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I hope you're going to run your Thief benchmarks again using the 14.6 driver mate, i think it had a bit of a boost. Certainly my fps on crossfire using Mantle went up by 52.5 fps vs directx at 1080P.
 
LtMatt said:
These are quotes that Thracks gave just few days ago in response to these exact questions. I don't see how it can get any clearer lol.

I would not take your bet purely for the fact that Nvidia will not attempt to support Mantle. However if Mantle does become open, im sure it will be well reported when it does, and the SDK publicly appears on AMD's website then ill take that as i was correct and you were wrong.
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Just to clarify, you are saying that you are willing to bet that Mantle will be an open standard by the end of the year?
I'll take that bet, I am willing to bet that Mantle is not an open standard by the end of the year. No way no how.

even if there is a public SDK, mantle will still be controlled by AMD, so it would be suicide for a competitor support and promote it
 
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LtMatt said:
I hope you're going to run your Thief benchmarks again using the 14.6 driver mate, i think it had a bit of a boost. Certainly my fps on crossfire using Mantle went up by 52.5 fps vs directx at 1080P.
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Ohhh will do, might even put the Asus bios back on and see if i can break 1300 on the core. First place is way WAY out of reach for me though :(
 
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