Chances of UKIP winning General Election?

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anything I don't mind said:
I would be interested to hear why someone is against ukip without resorting to calling them racist or misrepresenting their positions.
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Whilst this may be what you want, this does not invalidate the fact that they are racist, and misrepresentation is not finding an old racist BNP image they have 'Liked'. That is their online persona, and not an invalid representation of them.

That so many UKIP members are not credible is not an unreasonable reason to vote against them (and, in fact, should form the basis of any opinion).
 
Gilly said:
misrepresentation is not finding an old racist BNP image they have 'Liked'. That is their online persona, and not an invalid representation of them.
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I don't know this ins and outs of this particular story but I think at face value digging up stuff from the past to diminish someones current character is low and clutching at straws. I am not a fan of UKIP nor saying this person in question is not a racist.

It's like me being called racist / sexist because I laughed at a joke when I was back in school.

I do however get that people in positions of power need to be careful about how they portray themselves.
 
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Gilly said:
Whilst this may be what you want, this does not invalidate the fact that they are racist, and misrepresentation is not finding an old racist BNP image they have 'Liked'. That is their online persona, and not an invalid representation of them.

That so many UKIP members are not credible is not an unreasonable reason to vote against them (and, in fact, should form the basis of any opinion).
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Who is "they"? i am sure there are racist in every party even labour.

it is only because ukip are so open about being against mass immigration that it has given fuel to other parties who feel threatened and have no good arguments against their position so resort to calling the whole party racist.

There is no indication that ukip racist. One guy who upvoted a bnp comment two years ago does not mean that he is racist. One of the poor guys who the media attacked as being racist due to some off hand comment online turned out to be married to a non white.

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, if you present evidence that ukip is racist.



Its just these multicultural fanatics can't see the economic arguments against mass immigration, i don't think they want to. They are so hung up on anti-racism and pro-multiculturalism that fail to see past that, when someone says mass immigration has economic implications, all they see is racism. Its the paradox, by only seeing racism they are actually the ones bringing racism to the picture not ukip.
 
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balky12 said:
I don't know this ins and outs of this particular story but I think at face value digging up stuff from the past to diminish someones current character is low and clutching at straws. I am not a fan of UKIP nor saying this person in question is not a racist.

It's like me being called racist / sexist because I laughed at a joke when I was back in school.

I do however get that people in positions of power need to be careful about how they portray themselves.
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I only referred to it because someone else had brought it up in this thread. There are many other such episodes that are more recent.
anything I don't mind said:
it is only because ukip are so open about being against mass immigration that it has given fuel to other parties who feel threatened and have no good arguments against their position so resort to calling the whole party racist.
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Again, that is your inference. You saying it doesn't make it so.
 
Gilly said:
I only referred to it because someone else had brought it up in this thread. There are many other such episodes that are more recent.
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Oh yes if it's a common trend throughout someone's past then it's probably an accurate assumption.

It winds me up when people's character gets attacked, especially by the media, for something they did once way back when. I would hate to be judged off of a handful of things I did in the past.
 
Most of the recent media attacks on ukip candidates as far as i am ware, have all been proved to be either inaccurate or over stated or misrepresented. Apart from i think one or two where the candidates were dismissed.

The difference between ukip and labour and cons is that ukip is a relatively new party with working class people in it, these people do not have their whole life set out in preparation for public life.

Try find some dirt on the labour or cons candidates and you wont' find as much because they have all been more careful because they went straight in to politics and are more likely to be extra careful in what they say. Labour party takes youth candidates and trains them for public office, ukip has not had the same amount of time to do that.

However that has been many similar negative comments and behaviour from other parties. So why should their indiscretions be ignored?

The media also does not focus on other parties indiscretion to the same extent. We can see that there is a concerted effort by the likes of the bbc to bring any indiscretions from ukip to the front pages of the media. Similar indiscretions in other parties do not get the same attention. This gives the impression that ukip has loads of bad apples in its mitts compared to the other parties who are obviously only made up of angels by comparison.

Still happy to see evidence that ukip is racist or is full with racists.
 
anything I don't mind said:
Most of the recent media attacks on ukip candidates as far as i am ware, have all been proved to be either inaccurate or over stated or misrepresented. Apart from i think one or two where the candidates were dismissed.

The difference between ukip and labour and cons is that ukip is a relatively new party with working class people in it, these people do not have their whole life set out in preparation for public life.

Try find some dirt on the labour or cons candidates and you wont' find as much because they have all been more careful because they went straight in to politics and are more likely to be extra careful in what they say. Labour party takes youth candidates and trains them for public office, ukip has not had the same amount of time to do that.

However that has been many similar negative comments and behaviour from other parties. So why should their indiscretions be ignored?

The media also does not focus on other parties indiscretion to the same extent. We can see that there is a concerted effort by the likes of the bbc to bring any indiscretions from ukip to the front pages of the media. Similar indiscretions in other parties do not get the same attention. This gives the impression that ukip has loads of bad apples in its mitts compared to the other parties who are obviously only made up of angels by comparison.

Still happy to see evidence that ukip is racist or is full with racists.
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This tired argument again.

We do see incidents involving other parties, just not as bad or as numerous.

Despite that, even if they were worse, or more numerous, it still wouldn't make the ones from UKIP OK.
 
anything I don't mind said:
Still happy to see evidence that ukip is racist or is full with racists.
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Have a read!

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/27/ukip-farage-racism-lenny-henry-politics-europe
http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/hugo-rifkind/9195671/why-do-racists-like-ukip/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/ukip-racism-debate_b_5323901.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ugly-face-ukip-sunday-mirror-1531879

Another member complained about the impact of immigration on the NHS, writing: “I am informed by past media that Black Caribbean and not Black African have a higher instance of schizophrenia.

“I wonder if this is due to inbreeding on these small islands in slave times or is it due to *smoking grass.”
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misunderstood?
 
Have a read!

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

This is just a poorly written hit piece with no substance.

example:

Scared of immigrants? Vote Ukip.
Insecure about the financial crisis? Vote Ukip.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/27/ukip-farage-racism-lenny-henry-politics-europe

One candidate for election in Enfield, William Henwood, responded to a recent speech by Henry, in which he suggested there was a poor representation of black and ethnic minorities on British television, by tweeting: "He should emigrate to a black country. He does not have to live with whites."

That was obviously not a well thought out tweet, the guy is not thinking when he types that, that people are going to be reading that and sending it to the media so they can call ukip racist. I don't see how responding to someone complaining about lack of representation is racist. Is any response to Henwood other than agreeing with him racist?

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/hugo-rifkind/9195671/why-do-racists-like-ukip/

If Ukip aren't racist, how come so many racists seem to like them?

That is a fallacy, I can guarantee that there are loads of racists who vote labour and cons. You can not say the end result of your point as the evidence for your argument.

There was a very clear concerted effort to frame ukip as racist and right wing. As i have already explained, every mention in the media of ukip has been people claiming they are racist. It has got to the point where they are using each others articles as evidence for their own opinions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/ukip-racism-debate_b_5323901.html

yougov poll says ukip are racist, that settles it then.

haha

Second reason they are racist "THE ACTIVIST" talk about non sense. Then goes on use the girl who the media embarrassed who defected haha. yea sure.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ugly-face-ukip-sunday-mirror-1531879

the mirror... this is why i said ukip is going no where unless they get their own media organisation like labour have. If the media is not on your side then there is no chance.

They can even set up a whole scandal and frame ukip in anyway they want. They are that powerful. Some guy joins ukip who is working for the other side and the media and he then makes a big fool of himself and does some questionable things, then the media attacks ukip. That is one thing to watch out for but i am not saying it happens in all these cases. I am just saying it can happen and the media and the political system is that distorted and one sided that we can't expect anything more from them than calling their opponents racist.

misunderstood?

Yes. ukip is not asking for anything more than to be respected like the other parties. I don't see why a party that wants us to get out of eu has to be considered racist. You can be for localism or nationalism without being racist. The two are not automatically connected. There are non white british in the uk that also want to come out of the eu.

It is just a big media trick to frame that ideology, anti-eu as racist.

I don't realy have much more to say and think realy repeating myself at this point. We will have to agree to disagree.
 
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anything I don't mind said:
H
One candidate for election in Enfield, William Henwood, responded to a recent speech by Henry, in which he suggested there was a poor representation of black and ethnic minorities on British television, by tweeting: "He should emigrate to a black country. He does not have to live with whites."

That was obviously not a well thought out tweet
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On the contrary, it was an excellent tweet, as it tells us everything we need to know about the tweeter.
 
anything I don't mind said:
Yes. ukip is not asking for anything more than to be respected like the other parties.
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You don't ask for respect, you earn it. Ukip have done nothing to earn anything but the name they have for themselves now after various antics.


anything I don't mind said:
I don't see why a party that wants us to get out of eu has to be considered racist.
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That's what you're missing. They're considered racist for being racist; not because they're a one-trick pony that wants out of Europe. They're mocked for not having anything worth voting for; they're disliked for being racist.
 
anything I don't mind said:
One candidate for election in Enfield, William Henwood, responded to a recent speech by Henry, in which he suggested there was a poor representation of black and ethnic minorities on British television, by tweeting: "He should emigrate to a black country. He does not have to live with whites."

That was obviously not a well thought out tweet, the guy is not thinking when he types that, that people are going to be reading that and sending it to the media so they can call ukip racist. I don't see how responding to someone complaining about lack of representation is racist. Is any response to Henwood other than agreeing with him racist?
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You're right. He wasn't thinking.

That's why he dropped the facade and revealed himself for the racist he is :)
 
shephga said:
I don't think any political party has earnt any respect recently.
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Politicians do what politicians do best. Get the public fighting amongst themselves distracting the real problems away from the Politicians. Safe seats for 5 years at a time.

Debates, they're all about stalling and doing nothing. Talk about it for 5 years and give them appetisers before the election. Party time.

Keep Them Ignorant, In The Dark, And Feed Them Manure: You Will Get Away With Anything
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It`s a worry that so many people form opinions of UKIP based on what they get from the msm, no wonder we are being herded into the EU project`s arms so easily.
 
It seems many people vote UKIP as they are mainly against immigration. The EU is constantly growing and with free movement some of the people from some of these countries move to to the UK. But the numbers of people coming to the UK is small. The UK has a population of 63000000. The number of people comming to the UK is 212000 per year. That is 0.33%. As people move to the UK they do use public services but they also pay tax. There is a problem if immigration is to fast and public services cannot be increased fast enough but this isn't the case. It also allows people in the UK to work anywhere in the EU which means people have access to more jobs and industries that don't exist in the UK. There is plenty of space in the UK and a more populous country is a good thing.

UKIP are also against the EU which although costs us money it makes so much more with the common market and helping out the poorer countries in Europe only makes that market bigger.

Also Governments should be working together to set similar laws, tax and regulation so that multinational companies cannot find a tax haven or a country with relaxed regulation and make more money which is bad for all of us.

The EU means Europe is more like one big country which we need to compete against the USA and eventually emerging superpowers like China, India and Brazil.

I just feel like the advantages of UKIP like immigrants and the EU costing money and patriotism are easier to understand than the disadvantags.

Also UKIP voters disregard all the other right wing policies that UKIP are in favour of.

You do not have to be racist to vote UKIP but being against immigration attracts those type of people.

During a recession people vote for extremist parties. UKIP is just a fad and will be gone soon so I am not worried.
 
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