AMD wants to improve gaming in Linux and Steam boxes

[Rusty0611]

Where on earth did he say that OpenGL WAS Mantle?

 

[PhysicsMan94]

Um, I never said "Mantle is OGL", where did you get that from?

 

[LtMatt]

PM aren't you saying that Mantle couldn't work on Linux because their OpenGL drivers are poor? Because that's how it looks and i think that is what Humbug was replying to. Mantle does not need much in the way of driver updates so this would not be an issue.

 

[humbug]

PM aren't you saying that Mantle couldn't work on Linux because their OpenGL drivers are poor? Because that's how it looks and i think that is what Humbug was replying to. Mantle does not need much in the way of driver updates so this would not be an issue.

As i said he doesn't understand any of this.

 

[PhysicsMan94]

PM aren't you saying that Mantle couldn't work on Linux because their OpenGL drivers are poor? Because that's how it looks and i think that is what Humbug was replying to. Mantle does not need much in the way of driver updates so this would not be an issue.

That's certainly not what I'm saying, read carefully - I am saying that AMD's track record with Linux does not bode well for them with a Mantle implementation on there.

 

[PhysicsMan94]

As i said he doesn't understand any of this.

That's unnecessary, read my post again but properly this time before making stupid accusations.

 

[Martini1991]

Google "Linus Torvalds, Linux Nvidia" to see just how bad Nvidia is with Linux platforms.

Nvidia use OpenGL to forward their own interests, not Linux. they have no interest in Linux.

Mantle is not OpenGL, Mantle is Mantle, i don't think you understand what any of this is.

It's a bit rich for you to ever have the nerve on calling someone out.

 

[Rusty0611]

Utterly mind-boggling

 

[humbug]

AMD aren't going to integrate Mantle into Linux on their own, they will do it with the help of Linux developers and game developers, the main partners in this i suspect are CryTek and SteamOS.

 

[Martini1991]

You need an Origin client for Windows to play EA Games, that is no guarantee of translating into other platforms, its an assumption not a fact.

Besides that EA are not going to pass up a chance of more sales, Linux and Steam Box are a whole new platform to exploit, they are not idiots.

So, despite everything going through these drm platforms these days when it comes to games, you think EA are randomly going to abandon that for Linux? And you're calling my post assumption? They have origin in android, so that's two platforms (and what's android? Isn't it kind of like Linux?). So it's very likely (pretty much a safe bet) to call it fact that if EA Games are going to Linux, it'll be through origin.

And EA already DO turn down money with their refusal to put their games on steam, or have a none origin edition (bar I believe swtor, as it's not so much origin really).

Again. I don't think EA are going to ignore Linux, I can very much see origin coming to Linux.

 

[LtMatt]

That's certainly not what I'm saying, read carefully - I am saying that AMD's track record with Linux does not bode well for them with a Mantle implementation on there.

But just before that you cite their OpenGL drivers as poor and the only reason they're keen on using Mantle on Linux, before saying you don't even think it will work at all if implemented, presumably because of their drivers. Mantle does not need a lot of driver optimization, most of it is done by the game developer.

what few driver-level optimizations can actually be made (remember, Mantle is designed to move the driver out of the way for developers) have already been made.

//EDIT: To be abundantly clear, a graphics API exists to facilitate communication between the game/driver/hardware triangle. Mantle greatly emphasizes the engine/hardware line, and greatly diminishes the size of the driver line, but the graphics driver must still support the API and know how to respond to those API calls!

Taking the drivers out of the equation as it won't be an issue with Mantle, what other reasons are there?

 

[humbug]

So, despite everything going through these drm platforms these days when it comes to games, you think EA are randomly going to abandon that for Linux? And you're calling my post assumption? They have origin in android, so that's two platforms (and what's android? Isn't it kind of like Linux?). So it's very likely (pretty much a safe bet) to call it fact that if EA Games are going to Linux, it'll be through origin.

And EA already DO turn down money with their refusal to put their games on steam, or have a none origin edition (bar I believe swtor, as it's not so much origin really).

Again. I don't think EA are going to ignore Linux, I can very much see origin coming to Linux.

If they have Origin on Android then they have Origin on Linux, which settles that argument.

 

[Martini1991]

Google "Linus Torvalds, Linux Nvidia" to see just how bad Nvidia is with Linux platforms.

I know what you're referring to, this doesn't change that Nvidia have better Linux drivers than AMD.
In fact, don't Intel have the best Linux support? I know they've done a fair amount to android submits, and x86 android.

 

[Martini1991]

If they have Origin on Android then they have Origin on Linux, which settles that argument.

Erm what? You can't run origin on a Linux distribution natively. Even if they had a full origin client on android, that wouldn't alter the case just by that fact.
Android is just a kind of origin tie in, I believe thus far only utilises with fifa 14

 

[PhysicsMan94]

But just before that you cite their OpenGL drivers as poor and the only reason they're keen on using Mantle on Linux, before saying you don't even think it will work at all if implemented.

This sentence isn't coherent, I'm not sure what you are asking or claiming here. But I will address the latter part of it, and again I ask that you go back and read my post carefully again - I did not say that I "don't think it will work at all if implemented", the keyword in my original post being "if" that you need to look out for.

 

[humbug]

I know what you're referring to, this doesn't change that Nvidia have better Linux drivers than AMD.
In fact, don't Intel have the best Linux support? I know they've done a fair amount to android submits, and x86 android.

So in your mind because Nvidia have better Linux drivers now AMD cannot integrate Mantle successful into Linux for the future?

 

[LtMatt]

with them now claiming that Mantle could be implemented on Linux - well, that doesn't fill one with confidence as to how well it work, if it all and if they actually bother to do it in the first place (they don't always live up to their word).

This sentence isn't coherent, I'm not sure what you are asking or claiming here. But I will address the latter part of it, and again I ask that you go back and read my post carefully again - I did not say that I "don't think it will work at all if implemented", the keyword in my original post being "if" that you need to look out for.

I'm asking why you say poor drivers are the reason for them implementing Mantle on Linux and how that applies to Mantle not working on Linux when drivers are not important in the grand scheme of things on Mantle like they are for OpenGL/DX.

 

[humbug]

I'm asking why you say poor drivers are the reason for them implementing Mantle on Linux and how that applies to Mantle not working on Linux when drivers are not important in the grand scheme of things on Mantle.

I don't understand what they are trying to say either, they are clutching at straws with random driver hyperbole as if that stops a Linux Mantle integration.

It's ridiculous nonsense.

 

[PhysicsMan94]

I'm asking why you say poor drivers are the reason for them implementing Mantle on Linux and how that applies to Mantle not working on Linux when drivers are not important in the grand scheme of things on Mantle.

Key word being "if" in my post you quoted, as I quite rightly pointed out previously.

And it is abundantly clear that in any case drivers are still very important for any 3D graphics application, note the very last part of Thrack's statement here:

... but the graphics driver must still support the API and know how to respond to those API calls!

Therefore, of course, AMD's Linux drivers are still going to have to be good to obtain decent performance - they can't just produce any old crap and rely on the game developer to get it to work.

 

[LtMatt]

Key word being "if" in my post you quoted, as I quite rightly pointed out previously.

And it is abundantly clear that in any case drivers are still very important for any 3D graphics application, note the very last part of Thrack's statement here:



Therefore, of course, AMD's Linux drivers are still going to have to be good to obtain decent performance - they can't just produce any old crap and rely on the game developer to get it to work.

But AMD drivers support OpenGL? They may not perform optimally in games but that optimization is not required from Mantle, so how is that relevant here? It's not. Unless you're telling me you know Mantle better than Thracks.