*Transfer Window 2014/15 Season Rumours/Signings *AKA Man U fans listing every player under the Sun

Status
Not open for further replies.
RVP, Robben, they've been there, they've scored championship winning goals against the best teams in the world. They are above Suarez, he's got a good scoring record but of 4 seasons with Liverpool 2 were not great goal wise, last year was decent, this year very good, but he still barely scored against the better teams. Significantly it wasn't that Liverpool were terrible against the top teams, if Suarez only had a couple shots or 3-4 but all off target because he was shooting from miles out, ok. But he had chance after chance in big games, with plenty of shots on targets, and multiple misses from close range.

5 shots against Chelsea, 0 goals, loss and title over, 2 shots against city, no goals, 1 goal in 5 shots against Utd, 8 shots no goals against Arsenal in the FA Cup when they crashed out, 5 shots 0 goals in the league against Arsenal, chelsea 2 shots 0 goals, loss, City 5 shots, 0 goals, loss. Arsenal again in the league 3 shots no goals, loss.

Man utd 8 shots 0 goals, crashed out of carling cup.


For me it's as simple as, to be one of the best players in the world you have to be at your best frequently in the biggest games. Suarez has not done this, he's 27 and for 4 years we haven't seen this. Chance after chance in the biggest games and few/no goals against the big title deciding games. A couple goals and a few points chancing amongst the top 4 and Liverpool win the title.

Bale has won games with huge goals when the team were under pressure late in games and at 24 has added winning cups with game changing goals, something RVP, Robben, Ronaldo, Messi, Zlatan have all done before.

RVP managed to score a goal against Liverpool(twice), Arsenal, City and Chelsea last year all resulting in wins by a 1 goal margin. Also scoring against Arsenal in a draw. Suarez hasn't achieved that.

I have no problem with scoring 12 against the three relegated teams, or 22 against the bottom half. The best players score more against worse teams than the best teams, but scoring against the best teams is something they still do, still do well and change the outcome of the season based on those goals.

For me if Suarez started actually scoring and not fluffing all the chances against the top four, then he moves up, but the difference between so many strikers and the VERY best, is their performances/results against the very best. To consider him amongst the very very very best, without being able to perform against the best teams, is just silly.
 
Robbo said:
So it sounds like we've got Ander Herrera then, £28m.

We've actually signed a midfielder, I need a lie down.
Click to expand...

:D

(and whisper it quietly - the wages dont appear to be obscene either if early reports are accurate)

Now only a centre half, DM (De Jong as a cheap short term answer until Strootman has proved his fitness?) and maybe a winger ....and hope Southampton agree to meet Utd half way in regards to Shaw - if Utd reallly have increased their bid to £34m....
 
In a separate post, Vela has signed a contract extension, a lot of mentioning of things like coming to an agreement with Arsenal to make him a fully Sociedad player now. Sound like maybe Sociedad had to pay a fee to Arsenal to be able to have Vela sign a new contract without a buyback clause in it.

He could still leave this summer just with Sociedad getting the full fee, but it sounds like he'll stay for at least another year. 4 year contract(2 years more than he currently had left), so unlikely anyone will get him on the cheap in the next year or two.

Considering our apparent interest and the frankly silly fee of 3.5mil for an almost 50 goal/30 assist over 3 seasons player, I can only assume Vela had exactly no interest in coming back to play under Wenger. Best i think we can hope for is a sell on clause and a decent cut of the fee if/when he moves on for a probably decent price in a year or two.
 
drunkenmaster said:
RVP, Robben, they've been there, they've scored championship winning goals against the best teams in the world. They are above Suarez, he's got a good scoring record but of 4 seasons with Liverpool 2 were not great goal wise, last year was decent, this year very good, but he still barely scored against the better teams. Significantly it wasn't that Liverpool were terrible against the top teams, if Suarez only had a couple shots or 3-4 but all off target because he was shooting from miles out, ok. But he had chance after chance in big games, with plenty of shots on targets, and multiple misses from close range.

5 shots against Chelsea, 0 goals, loss and title over, 2 shots against city, no goals, 1 goal in 5 shots against Utd, 8 shots no goals against Arsenal in the FA Cup when they crashed out, 5 shots 0 goals in the league against Arsenal, chelsea 2 shots 0 goals, loss, City 5 shots, 0 goals, loss. Arsenal again in the league 3 shots no goals, loss.

Man utd 8 shots 0 goals, crashed out of carling cup.


For me it's as simple as, to be one of the best players in the world you have to be at your best frequently in the biggest games. Suarez has not done this, he's 27 and for 4 years we haven't seen this. Chance after chance in the biggest games and few/no goals against the big title deciding games. A couple goals and a few points chancing amongst the top 4 and Liverpool win the title.

Bale has won games with huge goals when the team were under pressure late in games and at 24 has added winning cups with game changing goals, something RVP, Robben, Ronaldo, Messi, Zlatan have all done before.

RVP managed to score a goal against Liverpool(twice), Arsenal, City and Chelsea last year all resulting in wins by a 1 goal margin. Also scoring against Arsenal in a draw. Suarez hasn't achieved that.

I have no problem with scoring 12 against the three relegated teams, or 22 against the bottom half. The best players score more against worse teams than the best teams, but scoring against the best teams is something they still do, still do well and change the outcome of the season based on those goals.

For me if Suarez started actually scoring and not fluffing all the chances against the top four, then he moves up, but the difference between so many strikers and the VERY best, is their performances/results against the very best. To consider him amongst the very very very best, without being able to perform against the best teams, is just silly.
Click to expand...

Do your stats tell you how often he made runs that created space for other players? Do your stats tell you how many times he won the ball back that started moves that led to goals? Do your stats tell you how often he was invloved in moves that led to goals?

There's a reason all of the pundits and commentators rate him and it's not just because of goal and assist stats like you throw at people to prove your point so often. He's world class and your dislike of him doesn't actually change that fact, same with Rooney as it goes.
 
Pigeon_Killer said:
Do your stats tell you how often he made runs that created space for other players? Do your stats tell you how many times he won the ball back that started moves that led to goals? Do your stats tell you how often he was invloved in moves that led to goals?

There's a reason all of the pundits and commentators rate him and it's not just because of goal and assist stats like you throw at people to prove your point so often. He's world class and your dislike of him doesn't actually change that fact, same with Rooney as it goes.
Click to expand...

I was going to say roughly the same - but include that he is definitely a world class **** to go along with that :D
 
Pigeon_Killer said:
Do your stats tell you how often he made runs that created space for other players? Do your stats tell you how many times he won the ball back that started moves that led to goals? Do your stats tell you how often he was invloved in moves that led to goals?

There's a reason all of the pundits and commentators rate him and it's not just because of goal and assist stats like you throw at people to prove your point so often. He's world class and your dislike of him doesn't actually change that fact.
Click to expand...

None of which disproves anything I said. I didn't say he didn't play well in those games... anywhere, though he has been poor in many of them over the past 4 seasons. I said he didn't score, and the problem being he took a LOT of shots and still failed to score.

http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/statistics/id/367158/statistics.html

vs Chelsea, Gerrard took 9 shots(mostly long range from recollection), didn't score, Suarez next most with 5, 2 on target.

http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/statistics/id/387277/statistics.html

vs Arsenal, he took 8 shots, which was 5 more than sturridge.

http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/statistics/id/367311/statistics.html

Vs Suarez, joint top number of shots, no goal.

http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/statistics/id/367320/statistics.html

vs City, Suarez most shots 5 vs next most which is 3.

http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/statistics/id/367365/statistics.html

loss against Hull, Suarez with 5 shots, no one else took more than 1.

http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/statistics/id/367392/statistics.html

vs Arsenal, again joint most number of shots taken.

http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/statistics/id/380821/statistics.html

vs Utd, again 8 shots, again the next highest down the list is 3.


yes he will create space for others, but clearly others have made chances for him, more than anyone else by a large amount. He's either by far and away taking the most shots or joint top except in one game where Gerrard shot more. There is no fundamental difference in number of chances or style, or how his team mates play between Norwich and Chelsea. They team makes Suarez more chances than anyone else in the majority of games. He fails to convert them in the biggest games, it's not the team failing to create them for him.

Sometimes Ronaldo will play like poo but still score a game winning goal that changes the title against a crucial team, that is football. If someone has eleventy billion chances to score against the best teams and just never does, I just find it hard to describe that player as one of the VERY best, like the best 3 players in the world.

In fact I find it pretty absurd, good, sure, great, sure, one of the best 3, no. You can't fundamentally screw up against better teams that often and be considered the best.

It's one thing if the team you are in means you have 10 shots against Norwich but none, or maybe one against the best teams. But that is very clearly not the case for Suarez.

We're talking about the absolute best of the best players, not really really good. You're claiming top 3 players in the world. yet, there are players who make that difference and score those crucial goals in the biggest games, and those who don't. I find it very hard to take the claim seriously that Suarez, spurning chance after chance after chance, failing to score in all the biggest games... is amongst the group of the absolute best. Near the best, sure, but in that group, for me, no.
 
Last edited:
^ you talk so much guff it's unreal. Suarez hasn't been in the CL for a while, just wait until he knocks in 10 next season for Liverpool.
 
Is Herrera any good? 24 and still plays for Atheltic Bilbao? Why isn't anyone else after him :p

He isn't even in the Spanish World cup team.
 
Jono8 said:
Is Herrera any good? 24 and still plays for Atheltic Bilbao? Why isn't anyone else after him :p

He isn't even in the Spanish World cup team.
Click to expand...

He's not the ready made midfield machine that we ideally need, but he's a great all round creative central midfielder (who actually plays in the centre). He's got a lot of energy and can run box to box too. I saw a few of his games last season so I'm far from an expert, but he's highly rated in general. I remember when he played against us a couple of years ago he was very impressive.

I was very happy when I thought we'd signed him on the last day of last summers transfer window. I think he could be a fantastic player for us, he is a bit of a gamble though, hopefully he'll settle in well, etc.

We could do with a midfield destroyer to go alongside him, I'm not a big De Jong fan, but someone in that sort of mould. I don't think Fellaini can do it. Not sure what to do with Carrick.
 
Dejong has had a great world cup and would only cost £6m would be well worth it and could still get Strootman in January aswell adding more flexibility to LVG for midfield
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom