Which basically means it will do nothing other than make someone feel good that they signed an online form. Real change tends to take a bit more than two minutes of your time.
Israel/Palestine Shenanigans
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Which basically means it will do nothing other than make someone feel good that they signed an online form. Real change tends to take a bit more than two minutes of your time.
Not really no. It isn't in Israel's best interests to bomb indiscriminately, that just gives Hamas more propaganda. Do you have any real idea of what Israel's military capability actually is? If indiscriminate attacks were what they were after then the death toll would be considerably higher than it is now. Think Syria levels of dead and Syria don't have anywhere close to the capabilities of Israel.
What do you mean half of you? Ive never said to send anyone back or complained about anyone taking my job?
I certainly wouldn't start firing rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas. Blow up shops and cafes with suicide bombers or car bombs. I definitely wouldnt kidnap and murder children.
You most certainly seem to be generalising and confusing me with someone else however.
If you bothered to click the link and follow it through you would see its actually an automated system to sign and email a letter to your own local MP. From this pressure can be applied at higher levels so at least numpties like David Cameron will stop approving these attacks on Gaza.
http://act.palestinecampaign.org/lobby/crisisaction
No, because most MPs can recognise an automated email because it will look exactly the same as the other 500 automated emails asking for just the same thing.
You honestly think it makes a difference? Then keep clicking them links. Just don't be too surprised when nothing changes because of it.
I think the fact that the Israeli's seem to be using smart weapons from aircraft (and it appears giving a bit of warning) tends to indicate a specific targeting and an attempt to reduce casualties.
If they wanted to do a "proportional" response to the Hamas rockets they could do it far more cheaply (and safely for their forces) by using some long range artillery and just getting the general area.
As it is each of their weapons probably costs as much as dozens of the hamas rockets.
So they're either trying to deal with the rockets with reduced civilian casualties, don't care about the civilians, or want the civilians dead.
Given their choice of weapons I'm guessing they're trying to do it with reduced civilian casualties, if just for PR reasons.
I wasn't specifically directing it at you. Sorry for offending if I have.
Soldato
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It's not like Palestinians have had a chance since they have had a complete blockade imposed against them by land, air and sea for decades. Including basics like cement, there economy has been destroyed then forced to operate through Israel making them dependent on Israelis who routinely hold Palestinians money as a form of collective punishment. The Palestinian land is routinely bombarded and destroyed in a cycle that they are stuck in of build and Israelis knock down. Nor have they had the luxury of mass foreign investment , not even the luxury of not being murdered in their sleep.
"UN agencies and Israeli human rights groups have concluded in several reports that Israel has imposed a policy designed to restrict the development of the Palestinian communities in the area.
According to Israeli human rights group, BIMKOM: Planners for Planning Rights: "The restrictive Israeli planning policy is a central tool in the ongoing struggle for control of land and the [Israeli] Civil Administration's attempt to secure large reserves of land for Israeli interests, primarily for the settlements."
See you would read this and think, aww how nice of the Israeli's, but scratch a little deeper.
Then you discover Israel has been actively destroying water supplies in Palestine for decades, both settlers and army, this is a fact.
How about power ohh "Israel also bombed the only electrical power plant in the Gaza Strip" then stopped repairs and supplies reaching Gaza. Ones fixed Israel cut of fuel to the plant resulting in it shutting down.
http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200609_act_of_vengeance
Israel have destroyed solar panels and other forms of renewable energy removing all Palestinian energy independence.
http://electronicintifada.net/content/eu-denounces-israels-destruction-aid-projects-west-bank/11301
Its actual policy of Israel to make Palestinians dependent on the state of Israel, which gives the Israeli's more leverage in talks, along as an avenue to enforce collective punishment which the Israelis love to do. Water and power are routinely used as bargaining chips by Israel and as form of punishment, hence Palestinian reluctance to accept it .
Hamas did not accept responsibility for the kidnappings, they are usually happy to do so when the do so they are probably telling the truth. This ceasefire you imagine is none existent, Israel has routinely and actively breached the ceasefire killing scores since it was implemented, Just that it isn't reported.
Although them celebrating the kidnapping, I agree with you doesn't exactly help their legitimate cause.
Given Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on the planet, I'm not really sure where Hamas should operate from. That's thanks to Israel penning them in small city sized land mass with a huge population which It then built a wall around and threw away the keys so civilians cant move either. That and the fact Israel monitors from the Sky, Seas and Land every single inch of movement made within Gaza, has the telephone numbers to every citizen, photographs/ID etc basically complete 100% domination over the area and people.
That's odd as Jews/Christians/Muslims had been living peacefully together prior to the arrival of foreign European Jews. Also odd since Christians are persecuted by Israelis too.
http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=24984
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Not always.. they were part of the ottoman empire... fact is there were supposed to be two states created from the Palestine mandate - currently one of those states (Israel) exists and is directly causing issues which prevent the other state from being created. The existence of illegal settlements in land allocated to the Arabs, the roads built across Arab territory which divide it up and prevent free movement... the settlers who continually harass their neighbouring Arabs all under the protection of the IDF. Its those sorts of policies, harrasment, confiscation of land, treatment as second class stateless non-citizens that drive the Arab population to support more extremist groups such as Hamas.
While there would no doubt be terrorists to deal with even if Israel did allow the creation of a Palestinian state I really don't think the issues would be anywhere near as bad as they are now.
Soldato
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That's a brilliant video. His speech really moved me, and he absolutely has it right.
Well they were ruled by the Ottoman Empire, which is different I think?
People who do not have their own state always disappear from history. The Israelis have worked this out and now have the ability to defend their state. By default if you can defend land then it belongs to you, regardless of what anyone else says.
That was later, in '47
this was the plan rejected by the arabs who wanted the whole lot and the jews removed.
This goes back to the usual arab bigotry, this land was administrated by Britain so they could do what they wanted with it, but arabs will never tolerate a non muslim state in what they see as their turf.
What the Israelis do or don't do is pretty much irrelevant, there will always be an extreme muslim group on their borders lobbing rockets at them, because Jew.
If they create a two state system, Palestinians will return and swamp Israel.
If they create a one state system, it will fail, muslims will not live in harmony with Jews or anyone else, see rest of world for a thousand examples of this (except maybe Lebanon?).
Unfortunately the UK is going to be another test case of this pipe-dream, which will be interesting.
Pew Research, 2013
89% Muslims in the Palestinian Territories want Sharia law
50% want it to be applied to non-Muslims as well.
So yeh, not going to work is it?
All of whom have been gleefully justifying the Palestinians rocket attacks as justified revenge, in comparison the rest of us appear happy to condemn both sides in this issue?
And this is the muslim mindset.
Yet not one of them understands why the world has been sitting back and letting this happen, they really are their own worst enemies
The sad thing is they are only there because of some vague biblical connection which makes the whole thing a disaster. There was actually a plan to live in Texas (or Uganda, lol) which would have been a better practical choice for them. Intellectually, who wants to rot in a sandy toilet when you can go and live in America?
Even better they could have come here, imagine Oxford with a County of Jews next door? The UK would rule the world in Scientific research
What a damn waste that they decided to go to that retarded country
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Soldato
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So we should just sit by and let it happen? Yes, you could demolish their state, but why does that make it in any way acceptable? The number of deaths is absolutely gut-wrenching. I consider you very much heartless.
See anything different or wrong with this statement?!
I bet having a fight with you is easy. If you get hit, you wouldn't hit back.
Let someone take over your home and put you out on the street, then condemn it.
We are just sitting by and letting it happen...
Have you worked out why this is yet?
This is just history in the making, unlike you I don't have a vested interest in making the world an Islamic Caliphate.
I just want to watch the next series of Walking Dead.
Fact is the Palestinian plight isn't even particularly significant, there are far more worthy causes where people are being repressed or exterminated.
So, pragmatism says meh.
Well yes, if every time I threw stones at an invading Alien UFO it killed one of my cats, I would move away.
If the UFO killed one of my cats every year, but killed 10 cats if I threw a stone, then I would stop throwing stones and be happy I still had some cats left.
Meanwhile, understanding why the Aliens hated cats would be my most pressing concern,
not looking for more stones to throw or risking my cats because I would rather hate the alien rather than protect them.
This I think, is a good example of a Christian cultural outlook compared to an Islamic cultural outlook.
And probably why every Islamic state on Earth is perpetually at war with themselves, and Christian ones are not.
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not really - they had a state....
it really isn't that's the whole point... yes there could easily still be terrorist groups lobbing rockets at them but they'd likely have a lot less support if there was an actual Palestinian state... a lot of the tension simply revolves around that issue.
They already have a one state... and a bunch of other territory/people which they exercise control over... I don't see how creating a Palestinian means Israel will be swamped or even what you mean by that... if some people living in refugee camps return to the west bank then so what? Israel has control of its borders... there are Arabs living in Israel who are full citizens - the issue is that there are Arabs living in Gaza and the West Bank who aren't free and who are essentially controlled by Israel. They need to be able to manage their own affairs...
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