Voice your opposition to the Israeli actions for the past 65+ years

Alternatively you could say it's the lesser of two evils when you consider the actions of all the other countries in the region.
If you compare the civilian death tolls of the two nations over the conflict & the amount of families made homeless/displaced then it's pretty obvious which side has the most blood on its hands. I agree it's chaotic & bloody in Palestine but it's not hard to recognise this is directly related to the conflict Israel forced upon them by illegally seizing their land.

Desperate people backed into a corner tend to do horrible things, this aspect should not be ignored.
 
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Alternatively you could say it's the lesser of two evils when you consider the actions of all the other countries in the region.

i wonder where syrias and iraqs nuclear programs would have been without Israels intervention, and how developed irans would be if they hadn't had to build one of the worlds best bunkers first to start it.
 
If you compare the civilian death tolls of the two nations over the conflict & the amount of families made homeless/displaced then it's pretty obvious which side has the most blood on its hands.

That's not what I said though. If one were to consider the actions of the other countries in the region then Israel is far from the worst. Who is not to say that the Palestinians would not follow the same model.
 
i wonder where syrias and iraqs nuclear programs would have been without Israels intervention, and how developed irans would be if they hadn't had to build one of the worlds best bunkers first to start it.

Well I guess Iran would be imminently close to making a bomb the same way they have been imminently close to making a bomb for the last 20 years. :p
 
@ Participant, Why would I leave my country to live in there?

Because the English told you to ;).

How about you go and live there as the English are as hated in history as the Jews. :)

Probably true. Normally the most forward-thinking nations are the most hated. Just look at America.

Scotland on the other hand...never really done much to attract attention :p.
 
That's not what I said though. If one were to consider the actions of the other countries in the region then Israel is far from the worst. Who is not to say that the Palestinians would not follow the same model.
That's a pretty poor justification for an illegal occupation "Yes we are terrible & kill far more civilians in our occupation than our foes - but look over there!, that nation of other Muslims is even worse than us - maybe they will turn out the same?!".

Doesn't sound too convincing to me.

Normally the most forward-thinking nations are the most hated. Just look at America.
You serious lol?. :p
 
That's a pretty poor justification for an illegal occupation "Yes we are terrible & kill far more civilians in our occupation than our foes - but look over there!, that nation of other Muslims is even worse than us - maybe they will turn out the same?!".

Doesn't sound too convincing to me.

Yes, it is a pretty poor justification. I never even used it as a justification I just said maybe it is the lesser of two evils - that is an observation.
 
and equally you have Saudi Arabian text books teaching primary school children that all Jews must be murdered.

Likewise, the Talmud says all Jews must murder the gentiles.

"When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep. " - Sanhedrin 57a

"The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel." - Baba Kamma 37b

"All gentile children are animals" - Yebamoth 98a

"Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth" - Abodah Zarah 36b

"A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave." - Menahoth 43b-44a

Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the gentiles should all be killed").

This passage is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).

This original Talmud passage has been concealed in translation. The Jewish Encyclopedia states that, "...in the various versions the reading has been altered, 'The best among the Egyptians' being generally substituted." In the Soncino version: "the best of the heathens" (Minor Tractates, Soferim 41a-b].

Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. (Jewish Press, June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane, who told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").

University of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against goyim, a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).

Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

Moses Maimonides: Advocate of Extermination

"Moses Maimonides is considered the greatest codifier and philosopher in Jewish history. He is often affectionately referred to as the Rambam, after the initials of his name and title, Rabenu Moshe Ben Maimon, "Our Rabbi, Moses son of Maimon." [Maimonides' Principles, edited by Aryeh Kaplan, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America,, p. 3].

Here is what Maimonides (Rambam) taught concerning saving people's lives, especially concerning saving the lives of gentiles and Christians, or even Jews who dared to deny the "divine inspiration" of the Talmud:

Maimonides, Mishnah Torah, (Moznaim Publishing Corporation, Brooklyn, New York, 1990, Chapter 10, English Translation), p. 184: "Accordingly, if we see an idolater (gentile) being swept away or drowning in the river, we should not help him. If we see that his life is in danger, we should not save him." The Hebrew text of the Feldheim 1981 edition of Mishnah Torah states this as well.

Immediately after Maimonides' admonition that it is a duty for Jews not to save a drowning or perishing gentile, he informs us of the Talmudic duty of Jews towards Goyim, and also towards Jews who deny the Talmud. Maimonides, Mishnah Torah, (Chapter 10), p. 184:

"It is a mitzvah [religious duty], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minnim, and apikorsim, and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot."

The basic Talmudic doctrine includes more than a "super-race" complex(Sound familiar? Think 1930s Germany). It is an "only" race concept. The non-Jew thus ranks as an animal, has no property rights and no legal rights under any code whatever. If lies, bribes or kicks are necessary to get non-Jews under control — that is legitimate. There is only one "sin," and that is anything which will frighten non-Jews and thus make it harder for the Jewish "humans" to get them under control. "Milk the Gentile," is the Talmudic rule, but don't get caught in such a way as to jeopardize Jewish interests. Summarized, Talmudism is the quintesscence of distilled hatred and discrimination — without cause, against non-Jews.
 
Are you always this ignorant? I can assure you that you wouldn't talk to me like that face to face big man.

I asked a simple question and you feel you need to come back with that? You utter ****.

I would if I could talk like this and worse right to your face, believe me. The fact that you jump straight to veiled threats of violence and name calling tells me clearly that you're full of hot air and you know it. Like I said, the kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli's triggered this latest round of violence so please stop trying to re-write history, nobody here is buying your nonsense.

Stop trying to be an internet hero, because you end up being an internet zero. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Yes, it is a pretty poor justification. I never even used it as a justification I just said maybe it is the lesser of two evils - that is an observation.

Do you think by Israel being there they stop oppressive regimes or stop extremism?
 
I would like to see how you would feel, if you were on the end of the rule of the fist....

I find it hypocritical that you object morally to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, yet say that they should just accept it and live with it. The latter seems morally ambiguous at best and at odds with the first statement.

The problem is that if Hamas stood back and did nothing. Israel would continue to push further into their land.

At no stage since years BEFORE the ridiculous US plan to split up the country have the (now) Israeli people not pushed forward and used military force to take over the region.

This is absolutely NOT an option of behave and they'll leave you in peace, of fight back and get destroyed.

It's behave and they'll take the land slowly and kill you one at a time, or fight back and they'll take the land quicker and kill them 100 at a time.... all while the world, who helped enforce the ridiculous stealing of the Palestinians land... watch on pretending it's not our fault and that we can't do anything about it.
 
Do you think by Israel being there they stop oppressive regimes or stop extremism?

I think Israel being there gives a hotheaded region something else to get it's knickers in a twist over. Not that historically they have ever needed much reason.

I know if I were cornered in a room whilst surrounded by people who wished me harm then I would lower the level at which I started swinging.

I know if I were of a people who had been brutalised and ostracised throughout history I would seek to gain a place where my own could live in peace for once.

I also know that people tend to adopt the characteristics of their enemies.

But to directly answer your question I think Israel gives some people justification/ or rather an excuse for extremism but they do act as a check on some of their neighbours and a buffer for the rest of the world.
 
The same right that allowed us to take the land from the animals/plants that inhabited it before we did - the right of might. Many of the European countries were reduced to fractions of their former size after WW2 and the slaughter that preceeded it was much worse than what's happening in Gaza. Today, most of these countries make no territorial claims, no threats regarding the land/people they lost decades ago and their closest allies are their former enemies. In other words, they moved on.

This is quite possibly the worst reply I ever got on this question, lol.

So are Palestinians Animals? The fact that a lot of people died in WW2 makes the current massacre of Palestinians less of an issue? Do you dare to say the same about the holocaust? So if the Palestinians were mighty, I trust it would have been OK with you if they came and occupied your home? You understand that this is what you are telling me with your "right of might" rationale? Do you realise that, unlike those countries who had armies and entered WW2, Palestinians had neither an army nor chose to be enemies with the Zionists, rather it was a thing that was imposed onto them? I'm no history fanatic, but I find your claim that many European countries were reduced to fractions of their original size after WW2 astonishing, surely it can't be many (first time I hear this)? Or maybe these are lands which had previously been illegally concurred by these countries in the first place (hint: which is not the case with Palestine)? Do you realise you are comparing apples to oranges here? These are nations who had, according to you, lost parts of their countries, not got totally displaced by another nation which had refused re-entry of the original people to their homes and which is exerting institutional discrimination, at best, and genocide, at worst, to make the remaining population flee? Who said that what your claimed countries have done is the right thing? Just because some countries have accepted degradation and dishonour means Palestinians have to do the same? Surely, just as "many" countries, according to you, have done so, I'm sure you do know that many countries haven't done so and not doing so as there are/have been many disputed territories and liberation movements across the globe. You see, your comment leaves more questions than answers - have you tried thinking before writing it?

Like I said, the kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli's triggered this latest round of violence so please stop trying to re-write history, nobody here is buying your nonsense.

But isn't the existence of Israel on somebody else's land what have caused the violence in the first place? You know what, forget about this. Haven't Israel been bombing, killing, detaining, torturing, illegally occupying, demolishing and oppressing the Palestinians just before these three settlers were kidnapped (which to this date Israel did NOT present evidence that Palestinians were behind it)? This is the case since 66 years, and it is even more so since 2000 when the current uprising had started. Palestinian deaths are IN THE THOUSANDS just since 2000, don't just cherry pick a time frame and attempt to re-write history, kid ;)

God some people here...
 
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If you compare the civilian death tolls of the two nations over the conflict & the amount of families made homeless/displaced then it's pretty obvious which side has the most blood on its hands. I agree it's chaotic & bloody in Palestine but it's not hard to recognise this is directly related to the conflict Israel forced upon them by illegally seizing their land.

Desperate people backed into a corner tend to do horrible things, this aspect should not be ignored.

The Arabs have never accepted Israel, not since its inception. Israel could remove the walls, move back to 1948 borders and it wouldn't make the slightest difference. The rockets would continue. The Palestinians in truth really only have themselves & their arab neighbors to blame. They started the wars, lost the land. Backed themselves into the corner.

The real tragedy is how genuine Palestinian refugees were and still are refused asylum by the surrounding Arab nations. Deliberately manufactured into a nation of suffering, unwittingly becoming martyrs for the greater cause, rallying international support for the end of Israel.
 
The Arabs have never accepted Israel, not since its inception. Israel could remove the walls, move back to 1948 borders and it wouldn't make the slightest difference. The rockets would continue. The Palestinians in truth really only have themselves & their arab neighbors to blame. They started the wars, lost the land. Backed themselves into the corner.

The real tragedy is how genuine Palestinian refugees were and still are refused asylum by the surrounding Arab nations. Deliberately manufactured into a nation of suffering, unwittingly becoming martyrs for the greater cause, rallying international support for the end of Israel.

Uhmmm, maybe because Israel does NOT have the right even for the boarders of 1948? Lol, do you even know what had happened in 1948? They committed countless massacres and kicked over 700K people out of their homes and then claimed the lands their own. How is this fair?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakbah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war
 
God some people here...

Don't believe in God and just see two groups of people who have have members who are both as bad as each other for scraping the barrel of moral decency. But feel free to defend one side over the other.

How do you feel about the neighbouring countries and their complicity in the denial of humanitarian aid. Or is that something you choose not to question?
 
But isn't the existence of Israel on somebody else's land what have caused the violence in the first place? You know what, forget about this. Haven't Israel been bombing, killing, detaining, torturing, illegally occupying, demolishing and oppressing the Palestinians just before these three settlers were kidnapped (which to this date Israel did NOT present evidence that Palestinians were behind it)? This is the case since 66 years, and it is even more so since 2000 when the current uprising had started. Palestinian deaths are IN THE THOUSANDS just since 2000, don't just cherry pick a time frame and attempt to re-write history, kid ;)

God some people here...

Nice strawman. I never defined a time frame because I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Mr.Internet Tough Guy, and we were discussing what triggered the latest round of violence that we see now. You've suddenly decided to prattle on about ancient history which is baffling. You've taken the conversation I was having and just side tracked it into something else.

Everything has a context, you should be careful when you post because, like in this case, you can look very foolish when you take something out of context, kid. ;)
 
don't just cherry pick a time frame and attempt to re-write history, kid ;)

God some people here...

you did just a few posts back where you told someone to get their facts straight and that no Palestinian groups had used children as bombers :confused:
 
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