Dead Rising 3 - leaked on Steam DB

You've misunderstood what I've said. A build of a game being compiled from the source code for another/additional platform post release of the first iteration of the game is not a game being ported.

Of course it's not being remade from scratch, but if you don't understand what actually goes in to developing a game (where it's done on PC mostly) then you might think that.
 
spoffle said:
You've misunderstood what I've said. A build of a game being compiled from the source code for another/additional platform post release of the first iteration of the game is not a game being ported.

Of course it's not being remade from scratch, but if you don't understand what actually goes in to developing a game (where it's done on PC mostly) then you might think that.
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But the source isn't unchanged and simply fed through a different compiler.

They have to make changes to the source to target a different platform... at least as far as I understand it that is the case.
 
Everyone doesn't call it porting at all. Some things are ported, game engines, but actual games they aren't ported simply because of the process involved. Compiling a build for one platform in the first place isn't "porting" so why does it become porting when more than one platform is involved?

As for John Carmack, I think you're taking his posts out of context, it seems to me he is talking about the game engines used, which would allow some form of compilation to be done, which is mentioned further down. I don't believe he's actually saying games themselves are ported.

But your argument seems to be "well this person's using it and he knows a lot, so it IS porting!". It's like when a famous guitarist says "solo" when they're talking about a lead in a piece of music. Their status doesn't make them correct just because they're using the term solo incorrectly.

Plus the issue with using the term porting, is that most people use it irresponsibly, they think they know what it means, which is usually a big red shiny button with "port" written on it that spits a version of a game out that is basically just the console version shoehorned to work on PC.

Which leads to people whinging and moaning about "ERMERGERD CONSOLE PORTS" which just gets tiresome because they really don't know what they're talking about.
 
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spoffle, if no games need porting, and it's really no effort at all, why aren't all games released for Linux as well as Windows?

Since porting doesn't exist, and you seem to be implying the code is the same, why isn't this the case?
 
hyperseven said:

So its not using the same game engine and assets as the xbone version, they are all made form scratch?
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Not sure the phrase porting can be used in this instance because it was made with Direct X in mind from the get-go.

The assets were toned down and stripped to fit the original intended platform, optimized for that platform. (XB1)

The higher PC requirements are more likely down to the fact they had little in the way of optimization time and had to focus more on hardware compatibility.

The game still has bugs on the XB1 which aren't crash worthy and go unnoticed, but in a PC environment they may well be.

The 30fps thing makes sense also. The game would probably appear sped up if run at a higher frame rate. It's similar to the problems LA Noire had.

They have a window to get this out there, in a years time I don't think it would sell too well.
 
FoxEye said:
spoffle, if no games need porting, and it's really no effort at all, why aren't all games released for Linux as well as Windows?

Since porting doesn't exist, and you seem to be implying the code is the same, why isn't this the case?
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That's not what I said at all, you have just inferred that. My point is that making a build of a game for a platform isn't "porting" it's making a build.

Not that games don't "need" to be ported. I'm saying that builds of games are made from the source code. Porting implies for example that they complete the PS4 version of a game, they then take the PS4 version of the game (not the source code) and "port" that to the PC then leave it at that.

Which isn't the case at all, there's a lot of work they need to do on an individual platform basis to ensure it runs the best it can on each platform, which makes it pointless to claim that games are ported, especially when you're talking multi-platform releases. How exactly do you determine what was "ported" to what?

People often use poor optimisation, or clunky menu systems as evidence of porting, others use a time scale. Game X on platform X came out first, so any subsequent releases are "ports" from the platform version the game was originally released on. It's all nonense and there isn't really a consistent and reliable metric these people use to try and claim games are "ports" outside of having something to complain about. So it's got to the point now where if there is ANYTHING anyone has against the PC release of a game, it's because "porting". Bugs? Oh it's because it's a "port", etc.

This is where people get the notion of "porting" from, they claim that because a game runs poorly on PC that it's been "ported" from a console. The reason it doesn't run properly is because it's not been optimised, not because it's a "console port". If there wasn't a console version and they still did the same the game would be in the same state.

When Portal 2 came out, the PC build had a few Xbox assets used accidentally, one was on a load or save screen where it said "Please don't turn your console off".

People jumped all over this and used it to claim that Portal 2 was a console port, when in reality all they'd done is included the wrong loading screen image, which was quickly addressed.

When people moan about "porting" they actually mean lazy development, and I feel it's important that people don't use the term "port" because it almost removes the responsibility of the state of a game from the developers/publishers and instead makes people feel like they need to blame consoles because the developers or publishers have been lazy.

That passes the blame from a part of people actually responsible, to a third party who have nothing to do with it at all and that also means that the devs/pubs don't have the appropriate blame assigned to them, so they keep on with it.
 
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I think you've defined the word "port" to a much narrower definition than normal.

So a port is only a port if the source code isn't available? Where did you get that from?

I'm sure many games were ported with full access to the original platform's source code. Talking about arcade games, etc. They couldn't have made accurate ports if they were doing it by eye.
 
No I'm saying that why claim a game is "ported" when it's being compiled from the source code?

The problem is that people who want to talk about the ins and outs of porting are often people who have little to no idea about what they're talking about.

As for "my" definition of port, the reason the definition has become broad is because of misuse, it doesn't however legitimise the misuse of the term at all.

The fact that you keep misunderstanding what I'm saying shows you don't really understand the situation (which is of course fine).

I will try and outline the point in the simplest way possible to avoid more "yeah but it's a port though innit".

A game is being made on 2 platforms, PS4 and Xbox One. How do you identify which one has been "ported" and under what criteria?

Neither one is a port. So, why when it comes to PC builds do people then love to scream "PORT PORT"? Because they don't understand what it actually means. Each build of a game has to be specifically tailored to the platform it's releasing on, using the source code to compile a build for each individual platform, which is then built upon afterwards.

So when you're building something from the source code, that isn't based off any other complete version, how is it a port? It isn't.

The same process happens for a PC exclusive game, as a game that's multi platform, they have to take the same steps to compile a build for the game for the PC, so are PC exclusives "ports" even though they go through the same process?
 
No spoffle, we do understand that situation. (In before "I work in the industry, I programmed Quake, Half Life and Crysis."). The broad meaning of "porting" simply doesn't fit your narrow definition.

Most games have a lead platform. The game is designed and built around the capabilities of that platform (most likely the lowest common denominator). There is extra work involved in targeting additional platforms. Whether this work involves modifying the code, modifying the engine code, or creating additional assets - this work needs to be done to exploit each platform fully.

On a very simple level, if platform A is using DX and platform B uses OpenGL, you aren't going to use the same code on both platforms. DX code simply won't work on an OpenGL system. If you build your engine for DX first (it's your lead platform), then later you "port" it over to OpenGL, do you not?

If your answer is that you "recompile" the code to work with OpenGL, I'll die laughing.

But listen, the whole thing is silly. The word port has come to have an accepted meaning. You don't like it, but hey, that's the way it is. "Console port" is part of the lingo now, and will continue to be. People understand what it means. They aren't going to stop using it because it somehow offends you :p
 
FoxEye said:
Most games have a lead platform. The game is designed and built around the capabilities of that platform (most likely the lowest common denominator). There is extra work involved in targeting additional platforms. Whether this work involves modifying the code, modifying the engine code, or creating additional assets - this work needs to be done to exploit each platform fully.
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This.

No offence to you spoffle, but when people state console port, the highlighd above is what they are referring to. It's true 99% of people who use this term, like myself, don't know what is involved in porting the game to another platform like the PC, when the PC isn't the lead platform.

Rofflay said:
console trash for £44? Whoever pays for this needs found and
lynched.
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This. :D
 
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spoffle said:
Your opinion is irrelevant as to whether games are ported or not, and they aren't ported. It doesn't matter if you believe they are, it doesn't change what actually happens.
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And as I stated, your opinion not mine. Yours is about as irrelevant as you claim mine is. Next!
 
I came here to see if this game is good or bad. Instead its nerd wars. Can a mod delete this dribble. I don't think any one cares if its actually refered in the industry as a port or not.

I'm a 2d and 3d design I've worked in the industry for 12 years as you put it. It's doesn't mean a thing, quite a few people on this board have, we are on a major hardware and technical board. Correcting people on the word port impresses no one. Post links to your work, your portfolio, talk to us about projects you are involved in, that's impressive. Instead your being a bit tedious. Nerd fight, nerd fight, nerd fight.
 
gazzamcg said:
This.

No offence to you spoffle, but when people state console port, the highlighd above is what they are referring to. It's true 99% of people who use this term, like myself, don't know what is involved in porting the game to another platform like the PC, when the PC isn't the lead platform.



This. :D
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Why would I be offended? :confused:

I already know that's what people mean, and I've stated that I think it's important people use the terms properly because it takes the blame away from the developers for doing a poor job and places that blame on "ERMERGERD CONSOLES". So people who have no idea what the industry is like will get caught up and hung up on blaming consoles for the state of some games and not the people truly responsible.
 
spoffle said:
Why would I be offended? :confused:

I already know that's what people mean, and I've stated that I think it's important people use the terms properly because it takes the blame away from the developers for doing a poor job and places that blame on "ERMERGERD CONSOLES". So people who have no idea what the industry is like will get caught up and hung up on blaming consoles for the state of some games and not the people truly responsible.
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People know it's the developers fault.

Blaming the consoles can be accurate even though it's the developers at fault, it's not the consoles directly affecting, rather indirectly.
 
I think some people know, but a lot of them don't. Which is why you see people around here crying about how all consoles do is hold back PC gaming. Completely ignorant to the fact that PC gaming would be where it was now if not for consoles due to the way they pushed gaming to the mainstream.
 
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