It didn't take any trawling actually, I was just looking up "Ten Commandments punishments" and it was the first to pop up.
ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion
- Thread starter robfosters
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It didn't take any trawling actually, I was just looking up "Ten Commandments punishments" and it was the first to pop up.
To ISIS? Obviously not, I'm just pointing out how the "ooh Islam is so evil and christianity is all about peace and love" isn't quite true.
So what you are saying is these people can't do what they want, because the West is a more advanced society, and less tolerant of these extremist views, they can not get away with it.
Unlike the middle east, where extremist views are more common place, and people like this can get away with atrocities...?
So remind me again why you are trying to defend the Islamic way of life?
No, I'm saying that the powers that be are more able to stop it here. The governing body is much more stable and in control.
If you could point to where I did that would be grand.
Also, if you think ISIS is a typical Islamic way of life, I think you need to look at what most Muslims are actually doing.
Soldato
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Why don't they speak out?
Soldato
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Religion is a disease, man is doomed until we can cure ourselves from it.
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Yup, looks that way.
Grasping at straws, but it's just what their local imams have been saying do it must be true.
The direction of your argument seems to be, 'don't hate them because we did it centuries ago, and we still have a very tiny amount of christian extremists now'
Apologies if I have taken it the wrong way.
We were wrong back then, and they are wrong now.
ISIS is not an example of a Westernised Muslim, I agree. But I think if you look at the middle east, a good chunk of people fall in line with how ISIS think... they aren't a tiny minority.
Everyone's somehow taken this the wrong way. This is all I'm saying.
Probably because, deep down, they aren't sure if they have more in common with non-muslim westerners, or muslim jihadists. Either that or there are more extremists in their ranks than they want to admit, and they're afraid of speaking out and being shunned by their own community/friends/mosque.
The argument that "we don't make it easy" for them to condemn atrocities is laughable. How, precisely, is it difficult to condemn atrocities? But no, we have to show them some love before they can call a massacre of innocents a massacre of innocents. Otherwise it's "difficult" to condemn the kind of thing ISIS is doing. And yup, that's our fault.
Trust me if a "good chunk" of Muslims in the middle east had the same ideals as the IS things would be looking very bleak for the rest for the world.
Any ways why now start pointing fingers at Muslims around the world as if it's them who destabilise a whole country creating a power vacuum on the pretext for spreading democracy?
And yes these IS individuals are the result for the west interfering in the middle east...Saddam would have crushed them.
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Do you live under a rock? Things aren't exactly rosey for the rest of the world...
Pretty sure an ISIS flag was put up in East London a few days ago...
Who is speaking out? Why doesn't everyone speak out regardless of there religious background?
Me personally I'm not going down to downing street to protest about anything, I don't believe it makes a difference. Nor will I do it just to show people Muslims aren't terrorists...
Lol at being shunned for speaking up against isis. We live in England not Iraq.
Even al Qaeda spoke against them and they're terrorists so God knows what makes people think most Muslims support them
Looks like you're right...
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2014/08/the-black-flag-of-isis-is-flying-in-london/
No it's not because they have loads of men behind them, it's not a numbers game. They have better moral then there opposition, are united and have sound tactics.
They target innocents deliberately so they flee and fear/panic is spread. Disgusting tactic but it served the Mongols well.
Also the areas they control they administer public services and pay wages so they have a heart's and minds policy that makes the locals have some hope.
Soon after they introduce a draft and train people ideologically aswell as militarily.
The old al Qaeda got kicked out by the Sunni Iraqis because they were too harsh on the locals. Time will tell whether this lot is smarter.
I'd say the majority of muslim countries (except the ones where we tried to remove a dictatorial regime we were fair-weather-friends with) are as stable as they need to be tbh.
Western culture and law differs quite significantly from that of most muslim countries. I won't say the likes of saudi or iran outright commend brutal murder in the name of the prophet (well, they do, sort of but generally only as far as their own people are concerned) as we are seeing with the is people, but these governments lean very much to the religious conservative right.
Most of these countries are stable to a degree given their nature - they rule with an iron fist because that's what it takes to keep their deeply conservative and radical separatists in line - reinforced by their tribal politics and conservatism that hold back development of all sorts in their countries - the few exceptions being the arab states that have adopted western finance and development, though underneath all of the shiny new infrastructure, they're still pretty intolerant. Brutal regimes make brutal people.
Unfortunately for us, we keep making the mistaken assumption that all of these oppressed people would be just like us, given a bit of westernised democracy.
Perhaps given another couple of hundred years of prosperity they might start to come round to our way of thinking. But radical conservatism in any religion is very difficult to stamp out; it's pervasive and ingrained into the people from childhood, just like any other hatred, the earlier it starts the harder it is to break and the less open to reason or negotiation it is.
And in most of these countries if you speak out against the government or the religious authority, you're likely to end up in prison or worse. It seems to me that the price of the modernisation of the majority of the islamic world (or any strongly religious peoples for that matter) will be blood. Theirs and ours.
Pity.