ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

[FoxEye]

And the next ultra-liberal cliche arrives. It's not Islamaphobic/Racist to be concerned about young British Muslims going off to jihad in Iraq/Syria and then come back brutalised and radicalised and what the potential consequences are for community cohesion in the future UK.

It's OK. The terms racist and xenophobic are so overused by the ultra liberals that they have no meaning anymore. It's actually funny considering I'm of mixed racial decent myself.

In 2011 a woman challenged in the courts a decision that people immigrating to Britain should speak basic English before coming here. The woman (who barely spoke English herself) wanted her non-English speaking spouse and 3 of their 6 kids to settle in Britain. She admitted to the newspapers that he was probably too old to learn English.

In a number of articles around the web, the fanatical lefties were suggesting is was xenophobic/racist to try to stop people with no English at all from settling here. That English shouldn't be a pre-requisite for immigration.

These people don't care about social cohesion. Don't care about British culture. In fact they probably have massive inferiority complexes/guilt complexes about being British (oh noes, the Empire was so bad).

Frankly people these days play the race card at the drop of a hat, so it doesn't bother me. We're going to have to get used to being called racist, etc, if we actually want to do something about the social problems this country is developing (and already has). Ultra liberalism will just sink us deeper in to the mire.

 

[Amp34]

And the next ultra-liberal cliche arrives. It's not Islamaphobic/Racist to be concerned about young British Muslims going off to jihad in Iraq/Syria and then come back brutalised and radicalised and what the potential consequences are for community cohesion in the future UK.

Unfortunately that is not what her post said.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

I usually see a funny correlation that exists,

Usually the liberals are the ones who don't live around it / see it on a daily basis. They usually live in their nice little area surrounded by their quaint little friends.

Just something I've sort of seen.... not sure how accurate my evidence is but I find it interesting.

Very easy to point fingers as they say when you are not the one surrounded by ****.

 

[balky12]

These people don't care about social cohesion. Don't care about British culture.

Think this is such a big part of the problem. People who disagree need to take their rose tinted specs off. I'm not saying everyone who comes to the country is like this, but enough for it to be a visible and growing problem.

You see it in several places, especially around London. Immigrants set up little communities, slowly grow, no social cohesion, maybe the language barrier has a big impact, maybe it's more to do with religion and culture? One thing is for sure, they are not integrating. It is their home away from home.

I am not saying that people should adopt the complete way of British life / culture, it's what makes Britain great, our multicultural society. But when there is zero attempt to learn the language, coalesce, it creates problems. Adversary.

Not saying it's all in our direction. I am sure Spain is probably fed up with us migrating over there. Only difference is we don't butcher our children in Spain, kill their troops, burn their religious symbols, desecrate their war memorials, protest against their troops homecoming, etc. We respect their country, and live side by side peacefully.

Let's not forget stereotyping and hatred grows from somewhere.

 

[The Running Man]

How can a muslim criticise isis for their tactics and not the taliban or Pakistan etc.

Stoning, punishments for trying to leave islam or not being muslim are par for the course. That is life for muslims.

Isis are just using these tactics sans a court and trial. Muslims know they cannot criticise too much because the closer they get to the koran, the more they would agree with these actions.

Unfortunately the ideology and culture are shared.

 

[ubersonic]

Unfortunately the ideology and culture are shared.

The UK is a Christian country, our ideology and culture are shared with the crusading knights who rode into Jerusalem and massacred Saracen men/women/children all over the joint, yet you don't see us doing that do you?

Just because a ideology and culture are shared doesn't mean their teachings/interpretations are the same, in fact you could even argue that Islamic extremists have a different ideology as their ideals/beliefs clash with regular Muslims even though they read the same book.

 

[balky12]

Stoning, punishments for trying to leave islam or not being muslim are par for the course. That is life for muslims.

Muslims know they cannot criticise too much because the closer they get to the koran, the more they would agree with these actions.

Unfortunately the ideology and culture are shared.

The UK is a Christian country, our ideology and culture are shared with the crusading knights who rode into Jerusalem and massacred Saracen men/women/children all over the joint, yet you don't see us doing that do you?

Just because a ideology and culture are shared doesn't mean their teachings/interpretations are the same, in fact you could even argue that Islamic extremists have a different ideology as their ideals/beliefs clash with regular Muslims even though they read the same book.

From my point of view this is where the problem is.

ISIS without doubt are extremist nutters.
Average Muslim is 'extreme' when compared to our religious behaviours, but as you said, its part and parcel of being Muslim... (Stonings, beheadings, FGM, etc)
'Westernised' Muslim's are, by our standards, normal.

Feel free to disagree. I just think its a sliding scale from 'normal' to 'extreme'. With the average Muslim sitting somewhere in the middle... thus feeling conflicted.

 

[badcompany]

Why don't all the Muslims who support or don't condone the isis go live over there and will can have all those non Muslims come and live here?

Or don't they want to give up living on easy street?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wik...04838/UK-MUSLIM-DEMOGRAPHICS-C-RE8-02527.html

 

[balky12]

Why don't all the Muslims who support or don't condone the isis go live over there and will can have all those non Muslims come and live here?

Or don't they want to give up living on easy street?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wik...04838/UK-MUSLIM-DEMOGRAPHICS-C-RE8-02527.html

'Muslims had the highest rates of disability, with 24% of females and 21% of males claiming a disability.'

Don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that this simply can not be true...

Some of the other figures are eye opening also.

'32 percent of Muslims on UK campuses believe killing in the name of religion is justified, 54 percent wanted a Muslim Party to represent their world view in Parliament, and 40 percent want Muslims in the UK to be under Sharia law. Only 2 percent of non-Muslims felt killing in the name of religion could be justified and none believed it was acceptable for Muslims in the UK to have a religious-based party, or to be under Sharia law.' o.O

 

[KIA]

@FoxEye

there are ]arts of Nottingham , leeds , Birmingham which are already `off limits` to non whites , also for Nottingham (I know it well) , theres area`s off limits to non blacks - muslim or otherwise.

Speaking of places in Birmingham being no-go areas for non-muslims:

Vue apologises after families 'barred from cinema for not being MUSLIM'

The Birmingham site bosses promise investigation as customers claim they were turned away because they weren't celebrating Islamic festival Eid

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vue-apologises-after-families-barred-3943677

 

[Amp34]

I usually see a funny correlation that exists,

Usually the liberals are the ones who don't live around it / see it on a daily basis. They usually live in their nice little area surrounded by their quaint little friends.

Just something I've sort of seen.... not sure how accurate my evidence is but I find it interesting.

Very easy to point fingers as they say when you are not the one surrounded by ****.

I live and work in London. Foxeye* on the other hand lives and works in that most "multicultural" of counties, Cornwall...


*as an example of one of the most vocal

 

[The Running Man]

The UK is a Christian country, our ideology and culture are shared with the crusading knights who rode into Jerusalem and massacred Saracen men/women/children all over the joint, yet you don't see us doing that do you?

Just because a ideology and culture are shared doesn't mean their teachings/interpretations are the same, in fact you could even argue that Islamic extremists have a different ideology as their ideals/beliefs clash with regular Muslims even though they read the same book.

No it's not. The British don't drive anywhere beheading people en masse, neither do they have laws in place that are overtly sexist, anti religious freedom etc yet Islamic states do. That's what sharia law encompasses and that's what a lot of British Muslims want in the uk.

The crusades are hardly revered, like the slave trade we can look back and say how wrong it was. We don't accept it and continue those practices

 

[Amnesia]

'Muslims had the highest rates of disability, with 24% of females and 21% of males claiming a disability.'

Don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that this simply can not be true...

Some of the other figures are eye opening also.

'32 percent of Muslims on UK campuses believe killing in the name of religion is justified, 54 percent wanted a Muslim Party to represent their world view in Parliament, and 40 percent want Muslims in the UK to be under Sharia law. Only 2 percent of non-Muslims felt killing in the name of religion could be justified and none believed it was acceptable for Muslims in the UK to have a religious-based party, or to be under Sharia law.' o.O

So who was it you don't like again ? isis or just muslims in general

 

[FoxEye]

I live and work in London. Foxeye* on the other hand lives and works in that most "multicultural" of counties, Cornwall...


*as an example of one of the most vocal

I can read, and I can listen. I know a few people who live and work in London, and they all say the same thing. Multiculturalism has not worked out the way everybody hoped.

Listen, you don't need to be a genius to see what's going on. From the basic fact that Muslims are not allowed to marry non-muslims, that they often bring in wives from abroad. That 40% want sharia law*. That 54% want a muslim political party*. *Those stats from uni students, educated muslims!

That 31% of males and 69% of women do not contribute to the economy. That 20%+ claim disability. 1 in 5 muslims claim disability!! That over 50% were not born in this country. It's actually hard to believe, but this is from the office of national statistics.

I mean, wow those guardian stats paint a picture, don't they? The more you read, you know, the more scary it gets.

And frankly the idea that I have to wait for Cornwall to become the next Birmingham before I can have a voice is crazy.

 

[balky12]

So who was it you don't like again ? isis or just muslims in general

I don't like ISIS...

But those statistics, if accurate, can't be ignored?

'32 percent of students on UK campuses believe killing in the name of religion is justified'

'24% of females and 21% of males in the UK claiming a disability.'

If those were the actual statistics this country would be messed up. Period. We would be the laughing stock of the world. 3rd of people thinking it's ok to murder because of religion? A quater being some way disabled?

Pull your head out of the ground.

Suddenly though stick Muslim in the sentance and it's a no-go area. 'Let's not offend. Anyone who point's at these statistics and thinks they are worrying is a racist and islamaphobe.'

A third of educated Muslim students think it is ok to kill in the name of religion? That's perfectly acceptable to you? C'mon... I know you aren't that daft.

 

[The Running Man]

Btw I live in oldham half way between ol and rochdale I have plenty of knowledge of living in a multicultural society.

 

[The Running Man]

So who was it you don't like again ? isis or just muslims in general

Isis are just delivering muslim fundamentalism.

what we are saying is if the vast majority are so against sexism, don't like abuse of religious freedoms (of other religions) why do they not campaign against isis, or Pakistan or shariah etc..

 

[Housey]

Btw I live in oldham half way between ol and rochdale I have plenty of knowledge of living in a multicultural society.

As do I, but as I'm posh my 'coloureds' are the ones we like. They drive fast cars, fix teeth, mend people and run companies. Their kids go to posh schools and they like to laugh at immigrants too. Some would call them integrated in the British way of life and almost like us 'whites', you know proper British as my Irish mum calls me. They do have some odd tastes in fashion mind and sometimes their houses are a bit ethnic and colourful but I 'put up with them' as I need to have some 'best friends who are immigrants' so I can feel educated and informed about their 3rd world ways.

 

[badcompany]

I can read, and I can listen. I know a few people who live and work in London, and they all say the same thing. Multiculturalism has not worked out the way everybody hoped.

Listen, you don't need to be a genius to see what's going on. From the basic fact that Muslims are not allowed to marry non-muslims, that they often bring in wives from abroad. That 40% want sharia law*. That 54% want a muslim political party*. *Those stats from uni students, educated muslims!

That 31% of males and 69% of women do not contribute to the economy. That 20%+ claim disability. 1 in 5 muslims claim disability!! That over 50% were not born in this country. It's actually hard to believe, but this is from the office of national statistics.

I mean, wow those guardian stats paint a picture, don't they? The more you read, you know, the more scary it gets.

And frankly the idea that I have to wait for Cornwall to become the next Birmingham before I can have a voice is crazy.

Economic and cultural jihad.

 

[Amp34]

I don't like ISIS...

But those statistics, if accurate, can't be ignored?

'32 percent of students on UK campuses believe killing in the name of religion is justified'

'24% of females and 21% of males in the UK claiming a disability.'

If those were the actual statistics this country would be messed up. Period. We would be the laughing stock of the world. 3rd of people thinking it's ok to murder because of religion? A quater being some way disabled?

Pull your head out of the ground.

Suddenly though stick Muslim in the sentance and it's a no-go area. 'Let's not offend. Anyone who point's at these statistics and thinks they are worrying is a racist and islamaphobe.'

A third of educated Muslim students think it is ok to kill in the name of religion? That's perfectly acceptable to you? C'mon... I know you aren't that daft.

Fine, we'll round all the British Muslims up and put them in internment camps so they can work for us. Then when we don't need them we can send them to the "showers"...