ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

Amp34 said:
Fine, we'll round all the British Muslims up and put them in internment camps so they can work for us. Then when we don't need them we can send them to the "showers"...
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Lol that old chestnut. Facts and figures always brings out the " your a Nazi/racist" brigade.
 
Amp34 said:
Fine, we'll round all the British Muslims up and put them in internment camps so they can work for us. Then when we don't need them we can send them to the "showers"...
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How am I a racist / Nazi for being concerned about figures?

You just don't get it do you? Or you are being deliberately awkward...

Like I said, you could take out 'Muslim'... if a country / religion / town / planet / race / school / insert big group of people here had those kind of stats (~25% apparently disabled, ~33% thinking its fine to kill in the name of religion) they would be a laughing stock, and should be concerned.

But because we are specifically talking about Muslims apparently I am a Nazi? Grow up.

We are talking about Muslims because these facts are about Muslims... the ~33% thinking it's fine to kill in the name of religion would suggest there is something fundamentally wrong with Islamic teachings.

2% of non-Muslims thought this was acceptable. ~1600% more Muslims think it is fine to kill in the name of religion...

This was a sample taken from the UK, where their tends to be a more level headed and well rounded Muslims... I dread to think what the % would be like from a sample in the ME? I bet it's above 33%...

edit. Majority of Central London knife crime is comitted by black people. <- does that make me a racist?
 
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Amnesia said:
You say isis yet all you seem to be bashing is general muslims.
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On this last page... since he linked the stats. 2 posts, one of which explaining that if those stats were about any group of people I would have the exact same concerns...

Take a time out to read all the posts, instead of trying to convince yourself, and others, that I am a racist, and that you are in some way a better person than I am. (only reason I can think of you going to these ends to try and prove I am some modern day Nazi)

After reading said stats, I voiced some concern (on the basis that these are accurate). I think anyone with a decent amount of intelligence would also be concerned...

Instead of trying to get the racist thing to stick, how about counter arguing my points?

Let's start off easy: Do you think it is acceptable that ~33% of any group should think it's alright to kill in the name of religion?
 
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Amp34 said:
Fine, we'll round all the British Muslims up and put them in internment camps so they can work for us. Then when we don't need them we can send them to the "showers"...
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Islam is a threat to the west. A threat to Europe. I believe this.

I do not believe in so-called moderate Islam. In fact I do not consider any form of Islam to be anything other than pretty extreme. The only "moderate" muslims are non-practicing muslims. The more they obey muslim doctrine, the more extreme they become to everyone else.

Secondly, Islam is not a religion. It is a system for governing society. It has its own laws & its own judicial system - laws that are incompatible with the freedom we enjoy. And a sizable number of muslims want to be governed by muslim law. Or would at least prefer it. Or at the very least, not oppose its introduction.

I also believe that it would be very easy for moderate muslims to be swept along with more fundamental muslims should the situation arise when the fundamentals gain power/control over a region.

Maybe the UK is too spineless to stand up to Islam and stop its spread. I fear it will prove to be. Let's hope other European countries are more successful. I hear efforts being made in Belgium, Denmark, Switzerland and other places to block inward immigration by muslims. These kind of measures I would fully support.

I agree with others that muslim immigration can and is being used as a non-violent jihad, with the intention of subverting and establishing new muslim regions in other countries. And I, personally, do not want Islam in the UK or Europe.

In short, I oppose Islam. I do not wish ill on any muslim, but I do not wish to see Islam spread and destroy our western civilization.
 
It's not the being concerned about figures that's the problem, it's what you're doing with the figures that is.

Remember this thread is about ISIS, an organisation thousands of miles away in the middle east, yet you bring up figures about people here, complain about multiculturalism and generally hijack a thread about an incident that is completely unrelated to the vast majority of people here, except of course, they have the same religion...

How many people have gone to the ME to fight for ISIS? About 100 at the last count IIRC. There are millions of Muslims in this country... Just because they don't all jump up and down screaming about it doesn't mean they condone it. The "with us or against us" argument is used far too often by those intent on stirring up trouble (I offer Godwin here again as an example... Again, I'm not calling you a Nazi, however I am pointing out the similarities between their argument against the Jews and your arguments in this thread).

The fact members of a group would like a political party to represent their views isn't shocking, it's standard political fare, whether they be rich people, poor people, Christians or trade unions.

As for killing in the name of religion, how many of the non Muslims were religious? What was the context of the question? What were the replies of non Muslims when divided out into religion? (I ask some of these questions again because you didn't answer them before) what would be the reply when asking a group of another religion?

There is an agenda here from you and several others in the thread and those statistics are being used to further it. That agenda has nothing to do with the killings of a group in the ME...

edit. Majority of Central London knife crime is comitted by black people. <- does that make me a racist?
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No, but it would if you then said that back people were dangerous...
 
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FoxEye said:
Islam is a threat to the west. A threat to Europe. I believe this.

I do not believe in so-called moderate Islam. In fact I do not consider any form of Islam to be anything other than pretty extreme. The only "moderate" muslims are non-practicing muslims. The more they obey muslim doctrine, the more extreme they become to everyone else.

Secondly, Islam is not a religion. It is a system for governing society. It has its own laws & its own judicial system - laws that are incompatible with the freedom we enjoy. And a sizable number of muslims want to be governed by muslim law. Or would at least prefer it. Or at the very least, not oppose its introduction.

I also believe that it would be very easy for moderate muslims to be swept along with more fundamental muslims should the situation arise when the fundamentals gain power/control over a region.

Maybe the UK is too spineless to stand up to Islam and stop its spread. I fear it will prove to be. Let's hope other European countries are more successful. I hear efforts being made in Belgium, Denmark, Switzerland and other places to block inward immigration by muslims. These kind of measures I would fully support.

I agree with others that muslim immigration can and is being used as a non-violent jihad, with the intention of subverting and establishing new muslim regions in other countries. And I, personally, do not want Islam in the UK or Europe.

In short, I oppose Islam. I do not wish ill on any muslim, but I do not wish to see Islam spread and destroy our western civilization.
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So you are islamophobic then
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia

Glad we cleared that up, can we get on with the thread about ISIS now?
 
balky12 said:
On this last page... since he linked the stats. 2 posts, one of which explaining that if those stats were about any group of people I would have the exact same concerns...
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Dont know who you're talking about and dont care since i dont care for your concerns.

balky12 said:
Take a time out to read all the posts, instead of trying to convince yourself, and others, that I am a racist, and that you are in some way a better person than I am. (only reason I can think of you going to these ends to try and prove I am some modern day Nazi)
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ok show me where i have try to make out you're some nazi and a racist....btw you cant since you just made that up.

balky12 said:
After reading said stats, I voiced some concern (on the basis that these are accurate). I think anyone with a decent amount of intelligence would also be concerned...
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i'm more interested that they went around asking these questions...
hey do you think you should be allowed to kill your fellow students in the name of your religion ?





balky12 said:
Instead of trying to get the racist thing to stick, how about ounter arguing my points?
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again the racist thing ? incase you didnt notice the thread is about isis not your issue with muslims in the uk.
make a separate thread and invite me to discuss your garbage there.


balky12 said:
Let's start off easy: Do you think it is acceptable that ~33% of any group should think it's alright to kill in the name of religion?
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yea lets start off easy...read the thread title and discuss that.
 
Hardly hijacked, 2 posts, regarding stats I didn't even post. But if you feel I have diverted the attention to ofar astray then I apologise.

I didn't specifically highlight the political party stat, as I found it pretty normal. It was the killing and the disabilty stats I was going on at.

Agenda? What agenda? Again if you took time out to read all my posts, I have stated I like Britains multiculteral society. I have stated that I know ISIS doesn't represent the typical Muslim.

Where we disagree is on the scale of extremisms (is that a word?). Whilst we both agree ISIS is the most extreme views on Islam, and they have to be stopped, we disagree on the 'average Muslim'. To me the average Muslim is also 'extreme', compared to say the average Christian. I understand that these are their ways, and they are behind the times, and we perhaps should just accept that? Then to me you have 'Westernised' Muslims. Which have adopted a balanced stance on religion, without opting for the bloodshed that all to commonly comes with it at the moment.

I have no hatred towards Muslims, I don't wish ill on Muslims. I have concerns however about how things will pan out if things continue the way they do... Not just in the UK but globally. Even for the Muslims who oppose the ways of ISIS...
 
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balky12 said:
I have no hatred towards Muslims, I don't wish ill on Muslims. I have concerns however about how things will pan out if things continue the way they do... Not just in the UK but globally. Even for the Muslims who oppose the ways of ISIS...
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How many oppose ISIS with their lips, but wouldn't be too sad to see ISIS create a muslim state in Iraq and Syria?

And if there was a muslim uprising in this country - how many moderate muslims would stand against it? You think any would?
 
the problem with ISIS and one which *some* muslims support , is they want the whole worl d muslim and convert or die....
 
Housey said:
As do I, but as I'm posh my 'coloureds' are the ones we like. They drive fast cars, fix teeth, mend people and run companies. Their kids go to posh schools and they like to laugh at immigrants too. Some would call them integrated in the British way of life and almost like us 'whites', you know proper British as my Irish mum calls me. They do have some odd tastes in fashion mind and sometimes their houses are a bit ethnic and colourful but I 'put up with them' as I need to have some 'best friends who are immigrants' so I can feel educated and informed about their 3rd world ways.
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Yes they love the wealth they can accrue. But still would like shariah, don't accept equality of religious beliefs or sexism etc. That is simply fundamental to their beliefs. Isis are simply enacting these beliefs on others at arms length hence they can't not support them or can't be seen to be doing so.

Isis is just implementing what they desire. They may not want to rock the cradle too much while they are making the cash. But times will change as their population increases proportionately to the existing status quo.
 
The Vatican is the richest organisation on earth, they should just use their money to raise their own army then go smash all the bads in the middle east, they could call them "crusaders" or something, I see no way this could go wrong :P
 
The Running Man said:
Isis are just delivering muslim fundamentalism.

what we are saying is if the vast majority are so against sexism, don't like abuse of religious freedoms (of other religions) why do they not campaign against isis, or Pakistan or shariah etc..
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So you don't campaign against it nor do most white people nor do you campaign against paedophiles.

So are you a closet paedophile and most white people because they don't campaign against paedophiles?

Your just trying to give a nice name to your ugly bigotry.
 
B&W said:
So you don't campaign against it nor do most white people nor do you campaign against paedophiles.

So are you a closet paedophile and most white people because they don't campaign against paedophiles?

Your just trying to give a nice name to your ugly bigotry.
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Tell me a state that condones paedophilia? (Apart from any Islamic ones). I would actively voice my dissent if there were British groups terrorising other countries forcing them to be paedophiles or die.

Which is what isis is doing in effect, but not necessarily with paedophilia.

You just keep making up excuses (bad ones) to avoid criticising them or even agreeing with criticism of them by creating superfluous scenarios that are not just or true.
 
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