ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

FoxEye said:
I didn't think you'd agree that moderate muslims are essentially non-practising or only partly accepting of the teachings.

So I guess if that is a moderate muslim, then I don't have anything against that.

But you can see that if someone did accept all the teachings that they'd be essentially an extremist.

So I guess the problem is that some muslims accept the whole teaching, which we seem to be in agreement is a bad thing.

I guess the next question is, should the teaching of Islam be re-written to remove the bad stuff?
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To answer:

I do agree.

Okay.

Correct.

Pretty much.

In my opinion yes, remove the bad bits and no problem.

What I've been saying doesn't relate to this though; you said all Muslims at least don't disagree with ISIS, and this is wrong. Vast majority of Muslims do disagree.

If you look around, there are many anti-terror Muslim organisations. Our media is quite biased; in the aftermath of the 2005 bombings, a survey concluded that 88% of Muslims disagreed completely with the bombings.

Of course this was not reported, and the amount that did hold some sympathy with the bombers (something like 5% if I remember) was reported. This is still too high for this country, but is clearly a very small minority...
 
As you rightly say, it's the same in Christianity and Sikhism and most other religions - someone, somewhere is always going to think their interpretation is correct and anyone not following it is not true.
 
NVP said:
The world is not binary. Many religions are "followed" by people who pick and choose to suit themselves, but they are also followed by progressives who filter in today's wealth of information.


Logically it does not make sense to myself, but I still respect it. I sit opposite a 64 year old Jehovah Witness when at the Liverpool office and the guy is so inquisitive and open minded I had no idea he was even religious until he told me many months later.

We have some quite in depth discussions at times, he found out I studied astrophysics and became quite engaging regarding what he sees as 'my beliefs', in a very nice way, he is always asking questions from a very logical and almost scientific standpoint - yet still believes his ancient book.



I think holding this belief is why you have such a weighted opinion. Do some reading into the interpretations, as there are many, and then hopefully you'll realise it can be twisted into whatever agenda is wished.
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A fully literal interpretation of all the teachings and they are.
 
tbyeah said:
To answer:

I do agree.

Okay.

Correct.

Pretty much.

In my opinion yes, remove the bad bits and no problem.

What I've been saying doesn't relate to this though; you said all Muslims at least don't disagree with ISIS, and this is wrong. Vast majority of Muslims do disagree.

If you look around, there are many anti-terror Muslim organisations. Our media is quite biased; in the aftermath of the 2005 bombings, a survey concluded that 88% of Muslims disagreed completely with the bombings.

Of course this was not reported, and the amount that did hold some sympathy with the bombers (something like 5% if I remember) was reported. This is still too high for this country, but is clearly a very small minority...
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Amazed I am, but we seem to have found some common ground. Perhaps we can all work to end extremism.

We shall see how events unfold over the coming years. I certainly hope that we can somehow discourage extremism in this country at least. It is extremely sad to see British people fighting alongside ISIS.
 
If anyone needed anymore of a reason to never go to Oxford street, you've got it. Apparently ISIS supporters have been up there spreading leaflets around.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...ing-british-muslims-to-join-isis-9665280.html

“He said: “This is a very disturbing development but one that should not come as a surprise since we are aware that around 500 British nationals have joined up with ISIS already.

We need to have a zero tolerance policy towards Isis supporters and recruiters in the UK. It is about supporting one of the most evil groups we have ever seen.”
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Zero tolerance on recruitment and support is all well and good, but how about ensuring those that are indeed found to be travelling to Syria/Iraq to fight for ISIS are never allowed to return to this country? This scum are all about fighting for the 'Islamic state', they can sure as hell stay there.
 
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tbyeah said:
Again, the vast majority of western Muslims do not practice every element of their faith, in the same way that Christians don't. Like him, the vast majority are what would be termed "moderate" Muslims.
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This is what i find interesting more and more we keep saying these "extremists" arnt "real" Muslims and it's the "moderate Muslims" are the "real" Muslims.


yet it seems the "extremists" are the one who actually follow the religion as its written and the moderates are the ones who pick and choose and ignore most of it.

seems the real muslims are the ones we call extremists at least as far as actually following their religion goes.
 
NVP said:
As you rightly say, it's the same in Christianity and Sikhism and most other religions - someone, somewhere is always going to think their interpretation is correct and anyone not following it is not true.
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Only Muslims are mass killing in name of religion.
 
you know how were being told isis were making around 8mil a month from extortion moths ago and likely considerably more now.

how is that any different to the taxes we pay?

really starting to think the west wants isis to mess up the middle east now too until they become a threat to western countries so the governments can force through more snooping laws and use it as an excuse.
 
You don't get beheaded if you don't pay your taxes?

Knew it wouldn't be long before someone accused the US of creating ISIS as some sort of false flag operation.
 
arknor said:
you know how were being told isis were making around 8mil a month from extortion moths ago and likely considerably more now.

how is that any different to the taxes we pay?
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Probably much in the same way paying taxes and extortion are two completely different things over here. Ones legal and ones illegal.

One helps fund public services generally, the other funds crime.
 
scorza said:
You don't get beheaded if you don't pay your taxes?

Knew it wouldn't be long before someone accused the US of creating ISIS as some sort of false flag operation.
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I never said that or implied it...
but don't you think it's strange the west are letting isis gain so much territory
 
arknor said:
I never said that or implied it...
but don't you think it's strange the west are letting isis gain so much territory
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Think they are bored of the ME on the whole.

Damned if they do damned if they don't. They are better off letting ISIS cause misery, then everyone in the ME will hate ISIS. If West interferes it will turn into another 'the West are coming for your lands, the West are evil' blahblahblah.
 
Tefal said:
This is what i find interesting more and more we keep saying these "extremists" arnt "real" Muslims and it's the "moderate Muslims" are the "real" Muslims.


yet it seems the "extremists" are the one who actually follow the religion as its written and the moderates are the ones who pick and choose and ignore most of it.

seems the real muslims are the ones we call extremists at least as far as actually following their religion goes.
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Extremists pick and choose too, like ignoring the whole "there is no compulsion in religion" to "do not kill innocents and trees".
 
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