Because you're not the one who ends up dead. How is that so hard to get your head around?
Justified or gun happy?
- Thread starter Kronos
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Because you're not the one who ends up dead. How is that so hard to get your head around?
How exactly do you propose they become certain?
Wait until he shoots someone? I'm sure that would go down well.
They shot him because instead of putting his hands up when instructed, he reached for the gun.*
I'm pretty sure being shot by a 12 year old has the same potential to be deadly as being shot by anyone else.
Protip. We're not.
*This is assuming the article and statements given by the officers are accurate, which is all we have to go on at the moment.
what?
The frequency of gun related crime/deaths in the US is significantly more than other developed countries, you can't seriously say we have a similar problem with guns in the UK.
Because if he's standing in a park waving a realistic gun around then in that moment he is not innocent.
Like I said, you wait for aggression.How exactly do you propose they become certain?
Wait until he shoots someone? I'm sure that would go down well.
They shot him because instead of putting his hands up when instructed, he reached for the gun.*
linked article said:
My point was in terms of the treatment of minors. They need the law to make a stronger protective effort, and presumption of innocence. He was 12, ffs. Imagine how a 12-year old reacts in that situation - they don't know the system when you have a police office pointing a gun at you and screaming. He'd just been playing guns with his buddies (or whatever)
Soldato
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Because America.
I believe in the UK/EU the guns have to be coloured so they dont look like the real deal to help prevent this type of incident. In fact its illegal to even home paint a bb gun incase some nutjob decides to make it look more real.
But yeh Justified if the the current story is true, if he wasnt listening to the cops and waving it around threatening people then he had it coming really.
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I thought you wanted to make certain? The only ways to be certain if a gun is real are for it to be fired (in which case it may be too late) or to inspect it (a bit difficult when someone else is carrying it and they're refusing to cooperate).
If you're a police officer in a country with a culture of gun crime, and you tell someone with a gun to put their hands up, and instead they reach for the gun, do you:
a) Incapacitate them before they have a chance to hurt anyone.
b) Wait for them to tell you they're going to shoot you.
c) Give them a chance to aim and pull the trigger.
I'd be pretty concerned about any 12 year old who wasn't aware that if a police officer points a gun at you and tells you to put your hands up, you put your hands up.
From the article, it sounds like this gun should have had a bright orange indicator on it to show it was fake, but some "genius" decided to remove it.
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They don't. Go on any airsoft webstore right now and you'll find all manner of replicas from pistols and sub machine guns to sniper rifles that look identical to the real thing. Unrealistic ones can be all sorts of colours.
You need to be an airsoft skirmisher to get RiFs though. Non-skirmishers get the bright ones.
Fine, you're ok with it. I'll leave it with you.
I'm not ok with it, and regret that they didn't offer the benefit of the doubt. That way, no-one would have died.
I also regret the prevailing environment in the USA which allows this sort of incident. I hope we never see it over here.
I assume they were aware or of whether he was deaf or not?
Or that he was not in someway mentally challenged or whatever the PC term is for those that are not and did not fully understand what was being said to him?
Surely this sort of kit is carried in the patrol cars which police use as walking the beat is a thing of the past.
Or that he was not in someway mentally challenged or whatever the PC term is for those that are not and did not fully understand what was being said to him?
Surely this sort of kit is carried in the patrol cars which police use as walking the beat is a thing of the past.
The problem is that in hindsight it was a fake weapon that was never going to hurt someone. If it was real and the officer missed with his first panicked shots when the kids points the gun at him there is a real chance that someone would be killed.
They told him to raise his hands. He didn't. That in itself is an indication that the boy was not just mucking about. If someone pointed a gun at me and told me to start Irish dancing, I would get my feet up.
So we've established that the child didn't threaten or point the weapon at the police yet they still shot him.
ffs.
ffs.
12 years old is plenty to go on a shooting spree.
When I was 13 I was drinking at parties, smoking and generally acting like a **** (As one does in their youth), guaranteed I would be capable of shooting a gun at people.
Don't you dare have the arrogance and audacity to try to put words in my mouth. I never said I was OK with it, I said it was justified and expected, and a 12 year old should be smart enough to have reacted appropriately in that situation.
It's unfortunate, but I'd rather the police were able to respond appropriately to a threat, than allow innocents to be killed because of the fear of repercussions.
Ultimately the kid with the gun made the choices to:
Remove the orange indicator from the gun.
Play with a realistic gun in public (in a country with a reputation for being "trigger happy").
Not listen to police instructions to put his hands up, and instead pull the gun out.
Poor choices, and he didn't deserve to die because of them, but it was a foreseeable outcome.
I agree with this completely. I think it's very sad that no matter how many incidents like this there are, kids finding their parent's guns and accidentally shooting themselves, school massacres etc. there are, they never learn, and the scum that are the NRA somehow manage to twist it and convince people that they actually need more guns.
I take it you don't have one either?
Barring mental issues/learning difficulties, 12 years old is more than old enough to realise a police officer pointing a gun at you and telling you to put your hands up means "put your hands up or there's a good chance you'll be shot".
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Walking around in public with an imitation firearm in a country that is super paranoid about guns and has an issue with children going on killing sprees / gangs using children as weapons. Oh and then not doing what they tell you when the police point guns at you. Yep, we've all done things just as stupid when we were 12.
So you think the killing of a child is never justified? Believe it or not, children can be dangerous. Just last week I dealt with two 11 year olds for a knifepoint robbery on another child.
From the information we have this sounds very tragic, but justified.
OK, honestly, think for just one second. When approaching a person with a firearm who has not only ignored your instructions, but has gone into his waistband and pulled out the firearm, do you really really expect an officer to have to wait until the gun is pointed at him before he can take action? You want an officer, a person with a family and maybe kids of their own, to wait until a suspect is only one finger twitch away from killing him instantly?