You think it's okay to torture and murder innocent people by leaving them out in the freezing cold "because there's no smoke without fire". I hope if the Police ever break into your house and murder one of your loved ones illegally due to a case of mistaken identity you take the same positive outlook.
Shocking CIA torture report
- Thread starter AGD
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You think it's okay to torture and murder innocent people by leaving them out in the freezing cold "because there's no smoke without fire". I hope if the Police ever break into your house and murder one of your loved ones illegally due to a case of mistaken identity you take the same positive outlook.
I fail to see how that is relevant.
The report clearly states that it did not 'get the job done'.
Soldato
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A little boy in scotland had his heart ripped out last week, so do I think bad things happen, yes.
Where did I ever say it was okay?
I doubt the UK will do anything that may draw attention to the fact it facilitated rendition.
I don't remember seeing a story about law enforcement officers torturing little boys in the UK.
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Scary stuff, they can kidnap you, lock you up without charge, torture you.
Sure its all fun and games, just how far can that go though.
Say for example it gets in to the wrong hands well at least partly, someone behind the wheel goes rogue, party X owns a business and wants to squash competition, asks drag net gone rogue to let them know of any new inventions, they find out and through compartmentalization, the people doing the kidnapping and the torture don't even realize that the person being kidnapped is not a terrorist but an inventor. Do they care?
Then there is the argument that sociopaths and psychopaths will gravitate to these positions, personally i would not want to be behind the wheel of a global snooping program capable of reading everyone emails, you would have to be a sort of sociopath to want to even do that and if you not, well the other sociopaths will just push the non sociopaths out due to self interest. Eventually the whole intelligence industry is filled with sociopaths, then the fun realy starts.
Sure its all fun and games, just how far can that go though.
Say for example it gets in to the wrong hands well at least partly, someone behind the wheel goes rogue, party X owns a business and wants to squash competition, asks drag net gone rogue to let them know of any new inventions, they find out and through compartmentalization, the people doing the kidnapping and the torture don't even realize that the person being kidnapped is not a terrorist but an inventor. Do they care?
Then there is the argument that sociopaths and psychopaths will gravitate to these positions, personally i would not want to be behind the wheel of a global snooping program capable of reading everyone emails, you would have to be a sort of sociopath to want to even do that and if you not, well the other sociopaths will just push the non sociopaths out due to self interest. Eventually the whole intelligence industry is filled with sociopaths, then the fun realy starts.
So we had Bush strongly denying the use of torture, to "OK we may use waterboarding but that isn't classed as torture", to more denials, to some grand covering up of the evidence, to spying on those investigating the CIA and the head of the CIA lying to the Senate. Whilst not shocked, surely some laws have been broken?
Have they mentioned Diego Garcia in the report? The shameful and hilarious damage limitation by the British government; "absolute no prisoners were rendered through DG, OK maybe one person, OK maybe a couple, no more - we promise, it turns out of the evidence relating to DG has been water damaged, (British ambassador) please don't publish anything about DG".
Have they mentioned Diego Garcia in the report? The shameful and hilarious damage limitation by the British government; "absolute no prisoners were rendered through DG, OK maybe one person, OK maybe a couple, no more - we promise, it turns out of the evidence relating to DG has been water damaged, (British ambassador) please don't publish anything about DG".
I'd bet good money that the information gained by the NSA has been used by US companies against competitors abroad. Where there's vast financial gains to be made you can't expect anything else.
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. You learn something new everyday. Thanks 
Soldato
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I think waterboarding works quite well.
Its just the chap being waterboarded might not actually know anything bar what he has done himself.
In a well celled organisation, this would be the case.
neither was the person they tortured to death...
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Yeah, but I bet he had a beard, bowed his head towards a point on a compass a few times per day and lived in a part of the world where bad things happened.
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Torture is one thing, it is making it legal for it to be done on people often people who are held without charge that makes it so problematic. If there was a terror threat then i don't think someone would mind if a police officer took it upon himself to go jack bauer on the situation. The thing is there is always a threat of some kind there is always a war or possibility of a war. You can't use that impending sense of doom to remove basic laws that prevent innocent people being tortured.
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Soldato
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Its certainty not a surprise - its been know since mid 2000's
Did they over step what was legal - yes
Did they get good Intel from torture - yes
Could they have got it without torture - yes
Does torture "work" - probably not
Have our forces been handicapped by the restrictions on them now - yes - but you have to follow the rules otherwise you are no better than the enemy
Did they over step what was legal - yes
Did they get good Intel from torture - yes
Could they have got it without torture - yes
Does torture "work" - probably not
Have our forces been handicapped by the restrictions on them now - yes - but you have to follow the rules otherwise you are no better than the enemy
What good intel?
We don't live in countries which face the regular threats you see in Iraq or even Israel. Regular crime is a much bigger threat in the Western world.
Whilst I can't say for sure, I wouldn't want torture and especially the removal of due process as a tool used to protect me.
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So why do you think it would be anymore successful in a different scenario...(hint: it isn't as has been reported throughout history)
Yeah, but I bet he had a beard, bowed his head towards a point on a compass a few times per day and lived in a part of the world where bad things happened.
You mean just like the millions of other innocent civilians unfortunately living in a war torn home....
No, it really isn't
I think a lot of us would!