Will UKIP win its first seat in parliament tonight?

spudbynight · 15 Dec 2014 at 11:02

semi-pro waster said:
What are the vetting processes for Question Time (or indeed other TV shows)? You don't necessarily need to have lots of people to make lots of noise if they're sufficiently motivated to do so and it does tend to be people who are most interested who will have applied to attend I'd guess.

Unless you've got some evidence that there was impropriety in the application process for people to be audience members?

You apply to be part of the audience. Part of that involves declaring either who you intend to vote for or who you voted for at the last election.

After this process the BBC invites people from those who have applied. I applied a while back when QT was due to be in Brighton. I was selected but late on the episode was moved to South Africa to coincide with the Mandela funeral.

Judgeneo · 15 Dec 2014 at 11:11

v0n said:
Yes, all the above is true, however, to fully understand this phenomena one needs to get a full picture. Let me wrap it up in a simple story:

Well written, I particularly like how you paint the masses as following the rumours without thought or reasoning, and only those in service of the authority know the truth of the matter...

robgmun · 15 Dec 2014 at 11:36

It's a pity that V0n has gone from Graphs and Stats to fantasy stories that bare no resemblance to reality

LordSplodge · 15 Dec 2014 at 12:53

platypus said:
Still not getting why you think UKIP will be any better.

Clearly because they'll get rid of all those dirty benefit / job stealing immigrants.

spudbynight said:
Gotcha, we don't have any immigrants in this country.

Yes, including most so-called indigenous British people. Your point is?

LordSplodge · 15 Dec 2014 at 12:53

robgmun said:
It's a pity that V0n has gone from Graphs and Stats to fantasy stories that bare no resemblance to reality

His story has more basis in reality than UKIP's policies!

spudbynight · 15 Dec 2014 at 13:02

LordSplodge said:
Yes, including most so-called indigenous British people. Your point is?

Well, my point seems pretty straight forward.

TwsT · 15 Dec 2014 at 13:10

spudbynight said:
Well, my point seems pretty straight forward.

define immigrant

and explain how banning people from coming in will make you like the folk already here.

scorza · 15 Dec 2014 at 13:14

OldCoals said:
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30474521

Don't mention immigration!

Ed doesn't get it. I've just seen him on the news saying he'll make it a criminal offence to undercut British workers' wages by "exploiting" migrant labour. This is a meaningless statement because it's not clear what 'undercut' or 'exploit' means in this legal context. People know this - they've heard it all before. In the event of a Labour government it'll result in a highly specific law that results in maybe 20 prosecutions. The simple fact is that the UK has lost control of its borders and only UKIP and maybe the Conservatives are going to do anything about it.

spudbynight · 15 Dec 2014 at 13:16

TwsT said:
define immigrant

and explain how banning people from coming in will make you like the folk already here.

Who is suggesting banning immigrants? I am not, UKIP are not either.

LordSplodge · 15 Dec 2014 at 13:49

spudbynight said:
Well, my point seems pretty straight forward.

Your point, I assume, was we have immigrants here. You didn't extrapolate if you have an issue with that. I was just pointing out we are essentially either migrants or descended from migrants.

spudbynight said:
Who is suggesting banning immigrants? I am not, UKIP are not either.

Except the leaked conversation where they suggested sending migrants back home should UKIP be voted in and we leave the EU.

Tefal · 15 Dec 2014 at 13:54

scorza said:
Ed doesn't get it. I've just seen him on the news saying he'll make it a criminal offence to undercut British workers' wages by "exploiting" migrant labour. This is a meaningless statement because it's not clear what 'undercut' or 'exploit' means in this legal context. People know this - they've heard it all before. In the event of a Labour government it'll result in a highly specific law that results in maybe 20 prosecutions. The simple fact is that the UK has lost control of its borders and only UKIP and maybe the Conservatives are going to do anything about it.

basically a fancy way of saying he'll add some tiny extra clause to the laws around employing illegal immigrants but not legal ones.

Tefal · 15 Dec 2014 at 13:55

LordSplodge said:
Except the leaked conversation where they suggested sending migrants back home should UKIP be voted in and we leave the EU.

not having heard this but wouldn't that be a necessary conversation?

if someone came here under the EU freedom of movement act but then we left the EU they are not a citizen they don't have a visa etc so surely they would have to be sent back or apply for one?

Efour · 15 Dec 2014 at 14:03

Surely there would be an Amnesty for ones living and working in the UK already ?

The vacuum in the labour market would be horrific. I'm pretty sure the London Construction industry would collapse over night for one.

LordSplodge · 15 Dec 2014 at 15:04

Tefal said:
not having heard this but wouldn't that be a necessary conversation?

if someone came here under the EU freedom of movement act but then we left the EU they are not a citizen they don't have a visa etc so surely they would have to be sent back or apply for one?

As below, if they're here and working, or here and have family that's born here they should be entitled to stay.

Imagine how horrible splitting families up would be? Because if you needed a visa and didn't get it that's what would happen. Plenty of migrants have married British people and then had children (my son married a Pole) and marriage doesn't give the partner automatic citizenship.

Efour said:
Surely there would be an Amnesty for ones living and working in the UK already ?

The vacuum in the labour market would be horrific. I'm pretty sure the London Construction industry would collapse over night for one.

The brewing industry would collapse too.

Tefal · 15 Dec 2014 at 15:28

LordSplodge said:
As below, if they're here and working, or here and have family that's born here they should be entitled to stay.

Imagine how horrible splitting families up would be? Because if you needed a visa and didn't get it that's what would happen. Plenty of migrants have married British people and then had children (my son married a Pole) and marriage doesn't give the partner automatic citizenship.

The brewing industry would collapse too.

Many of them any married though. And what would happen to all the British people in Europe would they be given automatic citizenship?

Wouldn't this cause a massive influx too from the poorer eastern places.

Ie UK announces in will leave eu and grant citizen ship to any migrants already here would make it very attractive just to get inside the country be of the deadline get your citizen ship and then you can come and go as you please

Judgeneo · 15 Dec 2014 at 15:32

Pretty sure the idea would be to have a transition period where they're all allowed to stay, and apply for visas and work permits.

The vast majority are in work, or have been here for a long time, or are married to Brits etc.., and thus will be approved with little fuss. A similar process would happen for all the Brits in rEU.

Anything other than this would be a massive human rights issue, and a breach of international law.

Total non-issue.

v0n · 15 Dec 2014 at 15:49

This is fantastic.

How would it be organised do you think? Would the "immigrants" who used to be residents (but not citizens) and became "undesirables" after quitting EU be stripped from the businesses, properties and lands they acquired? Would they have to wear some sort of mark on their clothing, or arm, to differentiate them from "natives" while they roam the streets, before being transported en masse into temporary, shall we call it transitional camps, since they don't really have anything or anywhere to return to, back in places they were born many decades prior?
I guess there would be barbwire and people with guns guarding the place, so them aliens don't try to escape? Would natives trying to give shelter to one of them aliens, or hide one in the loft, for example, get in real trouble with authorities?

Judgeneo · 15 Dec 2014 at 15:51

v0n said:
This is fantastic.

How would it be organised do you think? Would the "immigrants" who used to be residents (but not citizens) and became "undesirables" after quitting EU be stripped from the businesses, properties and lands they acquired? Would they have to wear some sort of mark on their clothing, or arm, to differentiate them from "natives" while they roam the streets, before being transported en masse into temporary, shall we call it transitional camps, since they don't really have anything to return to, back in places they were born?
I guess there would be barbwire and people with guns guarding the place, so them aliens don't try to escape? Would natives trying to give shelter to one of them aliens, or hide one in the loft, for example, get in real trouble with authorities?

I'm presuming you are responding to your own internal argument, because that post bears no resemblance to what I've posted, what others have posted, or UKIP policy.

Tefal · 15 Dec 2014 at 15:54

v0n said:
This is fantastic.

How would it be organised do you think? Would the "immigrants" who used to be residents (but not citizens) and became "undesirables" after quitting EU be stripped from the businesses, properties and lands they acquired? Would they have to wear some sort of mark on their clothing, or arm, to differentiate them from "natives" while they roam the streets, before being transported en masse into temporary, shall we call it transitional camps, since they don't really have anything or anywhere to return to, back in places they were born many decades prior?
I guess there would be barbwire and people with guns guarding the place, so them aliens don't try to escape? Would natives trying to give shelter to one of them aliens, or hide one in the loft, for example, get in real trouble with authorities?

what?

I think it's an issue that will need discussing as remember it wont just be us, there are brits abroad and we would have to make sure they got a fir deal too. if say Germany said no brits there could stay without applying for viusas but we alowed all Germans to stay it could cause issues.

but yeah **** it lets make nazi jokes, nothing like ****ing on the memory of millions of victims to make your point eh?

Tefal · 15 Dec 2014 at 15:55

Judgeneo said:
Pretty sure the idea would be to have a transition period where they're all allowed to stay, and apply for visas and work permits.

The vast majority are in work, or have been here for a long time, or are married to Brits etc.., and thus will be approved with little fuss. A similar process would happen for all the Brits in rEU.

Anything other than this would be a massive human rights issue, and a breach of international law.

Total non-issue.

would it be a breach of law though, they where given free movement within the EU they are no longer within the EU.

i cant really think of a similar situation in the past, would possibly end up with visa applications being rubber stamped but having say a 10 year time limit to give time for each case to be assessed.