Panaroma programme

Nobody is saying that buying another brand will help. A more ethical brand doesn't exist in the technology sector - that's the point. In other areas there are ways to buy more responsibly - fair trade, FSC, etc. The same doesn't exist for computers and phones.
 
I just think drawing the conclusion that Apple are somehow worse than the other manufacturers because they are the only ones who publicly discuss working conditions is flawed logic. Why is having a system in place to try and make a difference and failing sometimes worse than not trying at all?
 
n111ck said:
I see they now have Apple clickbait on tv too...

Shocking journalism particularly as it seems Apple are the ones trying to make a difference in such a corrupt country.

No mention of your Samsungs etc who use exactly the same companies either...
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I thought the problem was with the assembly houses. Do you think samsung etc use the same assembly houses as apple or are you getting confused with component suppliers?
 
Caged said:
I just think drawing the conclusion that Apple are somehow worse than the other manufacturers because they are the only ones who publicly discuss working conditions is flawed logic. Why is having a system in place to try and make a difference and failing sometimes worse than not trying at all?
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Nobody is saying they're the worst... :confused:

The point being made is that if you're going to preach about how high your welfare standards and the ethical credentials of your products are, then when faced with evidence to the contrary your response shouldn't be to brush it off and blame a news organisation - but to accept that perhaps your systems aren't as robust and ethical as you're claiming and try to improve suppliers further.

It's common knowledge that cheap labour is exploited throughout many industries, that's a given. That's why Panorama didn't do a show on it.

Caged said:
Foxconn and Pegatron build for a huge number of companies.
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Not Samsung though. Think they build their own factories in Vietnam and other countries.
 
james.miller said:
I thought the problem was with the assembly houses. Do you think samsung etc use the same assembly houses as apple or are you getting confused with component suppliers?
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It seems the Samsung factories have just the same issues but what's so much worse is that they actually OWN the factories and are therefore morally AND legally responsible for those abuses.

http://www.thewire.com/technology/2012/09/these-samsung-factories-sound-bad-foxconn/56542/

As for Apple - normally when Team America try to sort out another countries problems the liberals on here wet their knickers so why is this any different? China has a functioning government after all. :rolleyes:
 
Caged said:
I just think drawing the conclusion that Apple are somehow worse than the other manufacturers because they are the only ones who publicly discuss working conditions is flawed logic. Why is having a system in place to try and make a difference and failing sometimes worse than not trying at all?
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I don't think people are saying Apple are worse. The inference is that if anyone can make a difference then Apple are the ones who have the financial clout to achieve it.

What dismayed me was the fact that Apple appear to be more than happy to go along with the current arrangements. To make matters even worse they then spend big in their own back yard in an effort to show the world just how ethical they are.
 
If any of the articles that have come out today are to go by then Apple are doing extremely well compared to others. Apple have received praise within China today and Pegatron clearly very sensitive to their customer Apple are making significant changes.
 
The issue wasnt the conditions, it was apple spending years generating a paper trail for over 700000 subemployees. They can through any factory, produce documents which state people volunteer for the overtime, the nightshifts, then weekend work.
They have timesheets which show they have not been overworked.
Thy can produce this for any employee, and can date it way back now, as they have been gob****ting the world with their holier than thou approach on this specific topic.

The program exposed their entire ethos and program of papertrailing as a fraud and generated lies. That is the point, they said they would do better, they told the world they are doing better. They never bothered to check if they were actually doing better, just read the papers that said they were.

Apple, simple, easy, fake.

-edit, posted from an ipad air :p
 
delta0 said:
If any of the articles that have come out today are to go by then Apple are doing extremely well compared to others. Apple have received praise within China today and Pegatron clearly very sensitive to their customer Apple are making significant changes.
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I don't understand this argument- Apple are not the worst of the offenders so that is somehow spun as a plus. You could use this logic to compare who was the least worst Despot the world has known. :rolleyes:
 
As already said , this was a pop at apple due to them being one of the most recognised money makers in the industry....

This effects all electronic manafacturers and their supply chain.

as we all know manufacturing companies go to china due to there cheap labour costs.

Apple cant make changes to how their product is built either. They go to these big Chinese factories to find the cheapest , simples. but so do all businesses in manufacturing, squeeze every penny to make huge profits. IF you really think apple give a toss about how the labour force is fed and watered in china , you obviously don't live on this planet.

"Originally Posted by delta0 View Post
If any of the articles that have come out today are to go by then Apple are doing extremely well compared to others. Apple have received praise within China today and Pegatron clearly very sensitive to their customer Apple are making significant changes."

of course Apple will receive praise from china......do you really think that they want to lose contracts to other countries worth millions......This world is run on cheap labour.....that's why hardly any manufacturing goes on in the UK today.
 
terminator2k2 said:
As already said , this was a pop at apple due to them being one of the most recognised money makers in the industry....

This effects all electronic manafacturers and their supply chain.

as we all know manufacturing companies go to china due to there cheap labour costs.

Apple cant make changes to how their product is built either. They go to these big Chinese factories to find the cheapest , simples. but so do all businesses in manufacturing, squeeze every penny to make huge profits. IF you really think apple give a toss about how the labour force is fed and watered in china , you obviously don't live on this planet.

"Originally Posted by delta0 View Post
If any of the articles that have come out today are to go by then Apple are doing extremely well compared to others. Apple have received praise within China today and Pegatron clearly very sensitive to their customer Apple are making significant changes."

of course Apple will receive praise from china......do you really think that they want to lose contracts to other countries worth millions......This world is run on cheap labour.....that's why hardly any manufacturing goes on in the UK today.
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Your post completely misses the thrust of the programme. Assuming you watched it I suggest you watch it again to see what it was you missed or aren't getting.
 
I think the whole point was that the BBC were offered some undercover video and had to try and (badly) fit a programme around it....
 
n111ck said:
I think the whole point was that the BBC were offered some undercover video and had to try and (badly) fit a programme around it....
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I think you are mistaken. In my opinion the BBC would have to be involved from the beginning, otherwise they would not be able to ensure the integrity of the programme.
 
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