Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

ReltonBFD said:
I want the Muslims on the TV , in mass gatherings - giving it to these ****ing scum to be honest . I mean exile them from the Mosque tell them your not Muslim , denounce them , call the police . these Muslim extremist are practising Islam somewhere ....
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I've never met a extremist in all my life, who shall i shout at in the rain? What have the actions of some french dudes got to me in a different country?

Do you expect the same from others including yourself when bad things happen?

To be honest if i did that in Bradford , and went in and asked them what they think and why they are not on the street condemning it . I would be killed and that isn't a joke , seriously i would be.
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No you wouldn't, seriously you wouldn't.

ReltonBFD said:
Clearly you haven't lived or experienced a town like Bradford.

For such a multi cultural "hub" its very very divided and the tension can be felt in the air - unfortunately
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It really isnt, i live here and commute every day. Ive heard strories of "no go areas" etc, they simply dont exist. Take mannigham for instance which was one of these so called no go areas, go out luchtime and you will see it full with every colour of people getting on with their lives. In fact there has been a huge influx of eastern Europeans, got 2 houses on my street, and it isnt really an issue.
 
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Dis86 said:
But they do have a significant link to you. They believe in the same teachings you do. That, importantly, is a thing of choice.

I can personally say if a member of my family or someone who shared a significant connection with me did such horrendous things I'd feel guilt. I'd hope I could have enough influence on them to stop them doing such things.

That here is the problem really, nobody in Islam wants to stand up and say that it's wrong. Nobody wants to be a true leader. They pay lip service 'oh yes, we condemn these attacks' but very rarely do they stand up against them. Look at ISIS in Iraq, entire villages and towns accepting them. You could say it's out of fear...that doesn't make it ok. You should not let others suffer just because you're afraid.
I've got the physical scars to show that I've stood up to people in such situations.
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So do you take accountability for every group, movement, organisation, family, etc you are part of or have some link with? If you did, I'm pretty sure you'd exhaust yourself pretty quickly.

As I said, it's absolutely absurd and ultimately pointless. Islam isn't a tiny closed community, we don't all hang out with each and share bed time stories. Yes, I am Muslim and I follow the teachings of the Quran and yes I am aware that there are many verses in the Quran that deal with jihad and situations where violence is condoned, but there is also a verse that says you should first and foremost follow the rules of the country you live in, if you can't do that and be a Muslim at the same time, then get out. This consequently prohibits any acts of violence in that country (providing the country prohibits act of violence of course). Even if your country of residence is committing acts of violence against Muslim nations overseas, it's prohibited to take violent action within that country. If you want to help, you should relinquish your citizenship in that country and go over to said Muslim country and help them fight there, which is totally condoned.

This is my situation pretty much and I've had no issues for the past 29 years and I think I'm following Islam fairly well. I've never had to act violently towards anyone with regards to my religion.
 
Dis86 said:
I didn't say nobody stands up to them...

Let's face it too, most Islamic countries have been found to be complacent to the highest levels of government in supporting Islamic terrorists. Look at number one himself, bin laden, lived in the same town as Pakistans biggest military academy! That's either an entire country full of morons or let's face it...the reality is, as stated by the United States at the time...they knew he was there.
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Many Christian country's have done them same who made al Qaeda? the USA, so your going to blame Christians? you don't blame a religion when its teaching completely contradicts the actions of these terrorist.

Its people who are to blame, power hungry idiots who will do anything to further their cause.
 
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ReltonBFD said:
I would , seriously i would . Very minimum very seriously attacked . I'd make sure i asked at the one next to the Bradford Royal infirmary. I'd ring ahead too
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Then you are deluded my friend. I can see some taking offence why some wierdo turning up on their doorstep asking them why they arent "street" protesting for some random actions of some french people though.
 
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OldCoals said:
Islam, it is always shooting other people inthe foot.
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What is it with the anthropomorphising of a religion.

Due to the concentration of Islam within a few countries, Muslims (rather than a religion) as a whole are committing more crimes against Muslims than Non-Muslims. I suppose in both cases they shoot other people rather than their own feet.
 
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Craterloads said:
It really isnt, i live here and commute every day. Ive heard strories of "no go areas" etc, they simply dont exist. Take mannigham for instance which was one of these so called no go areas, go out luchtime and you will see it full with every colour of people getting on with their lives. In fact there has been a huge influx of eastern Europeans, got 2 houses on my street, and it isnt really an issue.
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Just seen this as it got edited in . I live here too and if your telling me right now you have never experienced the tension or intimidation in this city. You don't leave your house very often .

I've seen it change massively in such a short space . From school to the point where i don't go out in the town centre any more . Close enough to Leeds for such a nicer experience .

Working on site and with quite a few polish , Serbs & Romanians they have all said the same thing . and that's not a problem with religion by the way . the city as a whole is a boiling pot ready to spill over again just like before and that was horrific
 
Judging from Richard Dawkins' logic, Islam can eat, sleep, have sex, ponder, watch a football match, go to bed, watch a movie on a friday night as well as many, many other things.
 
ReltonBFD said:
I want the Muslims on the TV , in mass gatherings - giving it to these ****ing scum to be honest . I mean exile them from the Mosque tell them your not Muslim , denounce them , call the police . these Muslim extremist are practising Islam somewhere ....
To be honest if i did that in Bradford , and went in and asked them what they think and why they are not on the street condemning it . I would be killed and that isn't a joke , seriously i would be.
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This just shows your naivety and lack of knowledge on the topic. All that exiling and such does is push people away from mainstream and into isolation and underground groups where all of this fosters, this is actually what happens in many cases. What infact is part of the problem is the apoliticalness of most mosques and imams, most are too scared in dealing with these issue because they fear the wrath of being arrested and harassed. a lot of mosques also ban this type of stuff, all it does is push vulnerable people away and take them into dangerous circles.
 
Fly to Saudi Arabia, complain that they discriminate against westerners and how they should change things to suit you and censor their media. That should give you an insight into the cheek of Muslims.
 
ReltonBFD said:
Just seen this as it got edited in . I live here too and if your telling me right now you have never experienced the tension or intimidation in this city. You don't leave your house very often .

I've seen it change massively in such a short space . From school to the point where i don't go out in the town centre any more . Close enough to Leeds for such a nicer experience .

Working on site and with quite a few polish , Serbs & Romanians they have all said the same thing . and that's not a problem with religion by the way . the city as a whole is a boiling pot ready to spill over again just like before and that was horrific
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I work in town, get my lunch in town and am there nearly every day, and no don't sense any tension in town, just people getting on with their lives.

Where i have felt tension is in the scraggy estate areas like crag, holmewood, ravenscliff etc where surprisingly there isn't many minorities. Oak lane for example, where the riots happened, at one time you wouldnt see many white folk if i'm honest. Go there now and its brimming with everyone, because of the development of the park. Talking about the park go any day of the week and you will see people of all ethnicities sharing the spaces, joggers, mums with kids etc.
 
spudbynight said:
Yes, but any executions were carried out by secular bodies.
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you're splitting hairs a bit here - the original question was about a religion being violent - while the executioner isn't a priest he is carrying out the orders of a religious court as a result of someone committing heresy - I think that is a fairly reasonable example of the church having previously been violent

in the same respect when people refer to fundamentalist Islam as being violent it doesn't actually require the fundamentalist cleric to personally carry out the act he has called for - rather it is just the fact he's called for that act or perhaps issued a fatwa
 
ReltonBFD said:
Just seen this as it got edited in . I live here too and if your telling me right now you have never experienced the tension or intimidation in this city. You don't leave your house very often .

I've seen it change massively in such a short space . From school to the point where i don't go out in the town centre any more . Close enough to Leeds for such a nicer experience .

Working on site and with quite a few polish , Serbs & Romanians they have all said the same thing . and that's not a problem with religion by the way . the city as a whole is a boiling pot ready to spill over again just like before and that was horrific
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Sounds more like you isolate yourself which is why you feel like that. Why not actually go up to a few asians or Muslims and actually speak to them, there not all trying to blow you up and kill you, most are actually normal human beings.
 
dowie said:
you're splitting hairs a bit here - the original question was about a religion being violent - while the executioner isn't a priest he is carrying out the orders of a religious court as a result of someone committing heresy - I think that is a fairly reasonable example of the church having previously been violent

in the same respect when people refer to fundamentalist Islam as being violent it doesn't actually require the fundamentalist cleric to personally carry out the act he has called for - rather it is just the fact he's called for that act or perhaps issued a fatwa
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If someone wants to criticise the Church, I would just ask that they be accurate.
 
ReltonBFD said:
Just seen this as it got edited in . I live here too and if your telling me right now you have never experienced the tension or intimidation in this city. You don't leave your house very often .

I've seen it change massively in such a short space . From school to the point where i don't go out in the town centre any more . Close enough to Leeds for such a nicer experience .

Working on site and with quite a few polish , Serbs & Romanians they have all said the same thing . and that's not a problem with religion by the way . the city as a whole is a boiling pot ready to spill over again just like before and that was horrific
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You think any city doesn't have crime and problems with gang type violence?

It is isolated and blowing it up all out of proportion is pointless.

I've lived all over the "worst" parts of London and I just laugh at what people from outside or that have led relatively sheltered lives have to say about the places. I should apparently have been stabbed several times, shot once and all my belongings stolen.

Is the life expectancy in Bradford lower than other cities?
 
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