Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

TheBDog said:
Those 2 at the front look superimposed onto the image(no ones heads are THAT shiny)....
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C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Because the two Muslims at the front (must be Muslims they is brown innit :rolleyes: ) are not holding protest signs!!

However this is almost certainly not what the guardian was hoping would be taken from it, unlike the sun / daily fail the guardian aren't a right wing bigoted publication !!
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Image is definitely of the Guardian front cover (see below), but whether or not the Guardian photoshopped it is unknown. Of all the papers, I'd doubt the Guardian would be playing photoshop games.
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Craterloads said:
French are all about freedom of speech and at least they are consistent.....



Actually wait a minute

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4337031.stm

Seems the Christians were offended too....
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Maybe.. but they were just told not to do it, and that was the end of it.

Do you think if they showed the ad anyway, someone would die over it?


Edit - personally I don't see much wrong with it, so would have done so anyway - as a viral campaign as I guess advertising is regulated more sternly
 
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OldCoals said:
What on earth are you banging on about?
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I guess he's making a point about the hypocrisy and double standards displayed by some posters who are demanding random Muslims to do street style protests on issues they have nothing to do with...

Whilst sat on their own arses with issues that can be vaguely linked with them.
 
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elmarko said:
We should challenge a belief when it's used to legitimise a behaviour or action involving actual harm caused.

A person holding a personal belief in a god isn't a problem, but when they take that personal belief & project it onto others - expecting them to follow the same things they do it does. (when those beliefs are a matter of opinion, not objectively the cause of suffering such as say murder/violence).

This isn't a trait exclusive to the religious, it's about projection - people don't want to sleep with men & suddenly want homosexuality to be banned, people want to be religious & abide by certain religious laws & then want everybody else to.

Freedom of religion is important, as is freedom from religion. Projecting subjective beliefs is wrong & should be stood against in whatever form it takes.

The problems within the extremist minority of Islam are so bound up with historical geopolitical, social & cultural factors is makes little sense to focus solely on the religious aspect.

Frankly it's a terrible subject to discuss, as on one side you have people too afraid to criticise certain actions/behaviours or beliefs which may cause serious social harm. On the other you have bigots/racists & halfwits who jump on the bandwagon of anything anti-Muslim under the guise of humanitarianism.

The gunmen are a prefect example of breaking the requirement of not projecting a belief, they think it's wrong to mock/Islam draw images - ergo it's wrong for others to do it. This mindset at it's core should be the focus on what to change, nobody has the right to force others to comply to a given view when no harm is caused.

Freedom of speech is an important value which at times requires sacrifice & most certainly should be fought for.
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Surely the basis of all modern society is the projection of someones rules onto the populace and the decision on whether harm (real or perceived/potential) is caused by X&Y actions is subjective to those in control, and actions determined by their discretion?

Surely this is how it has to be in any state otherwise you have anarchy?
 
Craterloads said:
I guess he's making a point about the hypocrisy and double standards displayed by some posters who are demanding random Muslims to do street style protests on issues they have nothing to do with...

Whilst sat on their own arses with issues that can be vaguely linked with them.
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Which would be fine of the killers of Lawrence did it in the name of white people, however they didn't.
 
OldCoals said:
Which would be fine of the killers of Lawrence did it in the name of white people, however they didn't.
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And you know this because? :confused:

And if there is some ambiguity as to their justifications then maybe (just maybe) there is ambiguity with regards to the justifications behind the Paris shooting as well?

Accepting ambiguity with one hand and denying it with the other... THAT'S hypocrisy!
 
OldCoals said:
Which would be fine of the killers of Lawrence did it in the name of white people, however they didn't.
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Well that's just one instance, there are thousands of things that can be vaguely linked to you.

And I guess the murder had something to do with white supremacy, you being white is a vague enough link even though its boundaries are simply you being 1 in 1billion of white people.
 
wordy said:
But would you be out on the streets protesting? And if not would that mean that your silence be seen as support for children & innocent people being killed?
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If I was the sort of person out on the streets protesting about things like the treatment of Palestinians or the war in Iraq and I didn't protest over something like that it would be justifiably viewed as support.

I personally have never been on a march or anything of the sort. I have written to my MP on many occasions to make my feelings clear. That is how I choose to make my protests.

With regards the use of drone strikes these are my views. I am not an American and in the greater scheme of things the use of drones by America doesn't register highly with me. As an example, I am much more bothered by the 13million black babies killed in America since 1973.. You (and others) will no doubt have different views to me, however I am happy to stand over mine.

The point I was making earlier is that the "muslim community" is often out in force demonstrating about all sorts of things. The fact that they are not out protesting about something like this gives off a very strong message.
 
Craterloads said:
Well that's just one instance, there are thousands of things that can be vaguely linked to you.

And I guess the murder had something to do with white supremacy, you being white is a vague enough link even though its boundaries are simply you being 1 in 1billion of white people.
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He's being deliberately difficult, it's easier than saying "I'm wrong";)
 
spudbynight said:
If I was the sort of person out on the streets protesting about things like the treatment of Palestinians or the war in Iraq and I didn't protest over something like that it would be justifiably viewed as support.

I personally have never been on a march or anything of the sort. I have written to my MP on many occasions to make my feelings clear. That is how I choose to make my protests.

With regards the use of drone strikes these are my views. I am not an American and in the greater scheme of things the use of drones by America doesn't register highly with me. As an example, I am much more bothered by the 13million black babies killed in America since 1973.. You (and others) will no doubt have different views to me, however I am happy to stand over mine.

The point I was making earlier is that the "muslim community" is often out in force demonstrating about all sorts of things. The fact that they are not out protesting about something like this gives off a very strong message.
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Why is the way you protest perfectly acceptable, but muslims who have bog all to do with the Charlie Hebdzo murders have to put more effort & make more of a statement?

Your last sentence would have a point IF it was every muslim out protesting against insults to Islam, but it isn't, and we both know that.
 
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spudbynight said:
The point I was making earlier is that the "muslim community" is often out in force demonstrating about all sorts of things. The fact that they are not out protesting about something like this gives off a very strong message.
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One purpose of protests is to bring attention to things that often don't receive any attention at all. Some things people have no idea about, something things are not given much coverage on TV for a magnitude of reasons. Drones killings of innocents is one of these things, which unfortunately a vast amount of people fall into the government spin of "pin point accuracy" and "targeted killings", don't realise the vast destruction they have caused to ordinary civilians around the world.

There is no one protesting, there isn't much interest in the topic nor much coverage, hence why some Muslims in the west (and others) feel the need to protest, because no one else is.

On the other hand this attack in France were 12 people were killed has been on the news for over 24 hours constant, it is all the world is talking about. There are hundreds of thousands in France already protesting. It has got the attention, people are listening and voicing their concerns, so I guess there isnt that feeling of real urgency to go out and protest on a issue that is already at the forefront.

Just my two cents.
 
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someone on BBC's Your Say said:
"These so called "Islamists" have nothing whatsoever to do with Religion in any of its forms. Someone who worships a God will know beyond any doubt that no God in any religion would condone outright murder in their name or any other name. The terrorists (for that is what they are) think they will be rewarded in their heaven. How wrong could someone possibly be. These people have no concept of how precious life is and how it should be lived. They are basically cowards who shelter behind a word they describe as religion."
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