Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

Craterloads · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:18

dowie said:
You were talking about a murderer being white... irrelevant

It's not irrelevant, they had white supremacist beliefs, aka white people being the dominant race and everyone else being subhuman. There is a link how ever small it may be (white being the relevant issue) . And what I also said is there are thousands of actions the can be linked back to anyone, which is true.

Murderer being Muslim, killing people for insulting the prophet, punishment for insulting the prophet within Islam being death... Islam is the relevant issue there

I don't see them as Muslims (or Muslims like me catholic / protestant) , I don't agree people should be killed for insults, the punishment in some Muslim countries is death (although I don't think ever carried out recently) - Islam is a vague issue here. Personably I see radicalization as a major factor from years counter productive foreign policy.

dowie · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:20

TheBDog said:
Again, are you assuming that every Christian sect in the world is in agreement with this?

Nope... but the mainstream denominations are.

Crazy people who use religion to get what they want from others isn't uncommon in any religion. And it's the same here. Though it is a great excuse to bash Muslims as a whole, isn't it?

I'm bashing Islam as a whole. And it isn't the same here... until Islam progresses. The Islamic punishment for insulting the prophet is death... that isn't a fringe view it is the mainstream one.

dtokez · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:21

sityeuropa said:
The punishment in sharia is death for apostasy.

Yet we tolerate a belief system such as this.

seriously backwards cult that should be abolished.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:27

And at roughly the same stage of religious evolution Christians where doing pretty much the exact same thing! You seem to be very ignorant on the subject of religion, Islam is the newest of the monotheisms and just like the others will become more moderate as time progress's just like what happened with Christianity

sityeuropa · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:30

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
And at roughly the same stage of religious evolution Christians where doing pretty much the exact same thing! You seem to be very ignorant on the subject of religion, Islam is the newest of the monotheisms and just like the others will become more moderate as time progress's just like what happened with Christianity

People are not just becoming more moderate with Christianity, people are waking up and leaving it.

We know about evolution, we know about astronomy, we know how insignificant we are compared to the universe. We now know that sky pixies don't exist.

spudbynight · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:30

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Because it's the VERY same tiny section of Muslims (the poppy burners, death to the west .etc) that you speak of.
Obviously this tiny percentage of fanatical Muslims aren't going to protest against something that they actually agree with (i.e the killing of the cartoonists )

The mistake that the ignorant people here are making is they seem to think this tiny section of Muslims is representative of ALL Muslims, which is ridiculous considering they make up <1%

We had a SodaStream ecoshop open down here in Brighton. There was a protest outside it EVERY Saturday for well over a year until it closed. The people protesting were not some radical nutters.

Stretch · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:32

Not directly related to the killings in Paris

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/isis-beheaded-a-street-magician/ar-AA7SmeX

Can anyone actually imagine living in the same world as these people? I find it impossible to imagine why anyone, Muslim or otherwise would ever want to live by their rules, let alone fight for them. If Sharia was imposed on the world, does anyone actually believe the violence would stop. It's mob sociopathy. Violence is the aim, not the means.

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The intentions of Islam might be good, but there's only one place these people are going. Hell on earth.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:35

spudbynight said:
We had a SodaStream ecoshop open down here in Brighton. There was a protest outside it EVERY Saturday for well over a year until it closed. The people protesting were not some radical nutters.

The right to peacefully protest against something you fundamentally disagree with is a human right that EVERYONE should fight for with every fibre in their body :confused:

spudbynight · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:38

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
The right to peacefully protest against something you fundamentally disagree with is a human right that EVERYONE should fight for with every fibre in their body

I am not arguing against that.

The issue I have is with the lack of any protest from the muslim community against this attack. This from a community that in this country at least has taken victimhood to a new level.

leaskovski · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:38

So they are heading back in to Paris after spending a night on the run to Reims? I wonder what they are trying to accomplish by heading back to Paris?

LockyOK · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:42

Thompson_NCL said:
You can mock Judaism all you like. But Jews are an ethnic group, which is where you fall foul of the law.

I guess that it is entirely acceptable to ridicule people who believe that their particular "Superbeing" told them it is perfectly acceptable to torture animals to death but that they must never eat pork or engage in sundry random activities on a Saturday - e.g. shopping, cleaning, cooking, writing letters, tearing toilet paper, turning lights on or off, carrying things about, putting out a fire, etc., etc., etc. - UNLESS they happen to be "Jews" in which case they are above ridicule. Handy that

Frankly it is entirely unreasonable inconsistently to start protecting people from cristicism or ridicule simply because they claim to belong to a particular group.

ps - most of us are members of the human race, it is racist to pick on us!

We are all Charlies!

lemonade · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:43

robgmun said:
A hollow gesture at best, simply not good enough

So they put out a lazy statement and that's it? Did you see all the protests last night? The crowds where overwhelmingly white, where are the Muslims holding the "Je suis Charlie" signs? go to the BBC and the Mail and check the photos.

Al Azhar, which is the oldest and biggest existing school of scholarship in Islam condemned this, people are asking that here and there you have it. Just because its not splashed across the front pages of your rag paper doesnt mean it hasnt been done. Ignorance is a bliss.

lemonade · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:45

eddiemcgarrigle said:
What we need is for Muslims to accept that criticism of their religion is not about them but just about trying to point out the problems that lie therein.

If they could accept an Islamic style version of Father Ted it would be a start. Father Ted was fun comedy but the really golden moments where those that where missed by those who didn't understand the faith that was being satirised.

There is a difference between criticism and insulting someone. Criticising Islam is accepted and always has been, there are regularly big debates on these issues. Insulting, mocking and goading, especially a marginalised minority group is another issue altogether.

BuffetSlayer · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:46

leaskovski said:
So they are heading back in to Paris after spending a night on the run to Reims? I wonder what they are trying to accomplish by heading back to Paris?

Killing more people probably.

dowie · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:46

lemonade said:
Al Azhar, which is the oldest and biggest existing school of scholarship in Islam condemned this, people are asking that here and there you have it. Just because its not splashed across the front pages of your rag paper doesnt mean it hasnt been done. Ignorance is a bliss.

The Saudis also condemned it, yet are happy to execute people themselves for blasphemy.

The bigger issue is the penalty if death for insulting the prophet within Islam... when that starts to change/be condemned then we might see some progress.

thep02 · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:47

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Indeed, but I think you'll find that a very large percentage of racists are also bigoted in many other areas also (homophobic, sexist, religious bigotry ..etc)
At least they are consistent

Even on a day such as this the GD racist squad still manage to come across as some poorly educated fools who damage their standpoint, I'm pretty sure at least two of them are hard core communists in the guise of nationalists out to deliberately look bad in the eyes of normal people.

Noxia · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:47

Coming out and saying "we condemn this event" is just lip service though? Like whenever something happens and you get the same quote from pretty much every MP/President in various countries saying how they "condemn in the strongest possible terms".
Didn't realise it was the job for Muslims to apologise on behalf of those who have nothing to do with them.

TheBDog · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:49

dowie said:
Nope... but the mainstream denominations are.

I'm bashing Islam as a whole. And it isn't the same here... until Islam progresses. The Islamic punishment for insulting the prophet is death... that isn't a fringe view it is the mainstream one.

I have been doing a little research on the subject of Aspostasy in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

A survey conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2010 found relatively widespread popular support for death penalty as a punishment for apostasy in Egypt (84% of respondents in favor of death penalty), Jordan (86% in favor), Indonesia (30%), Pakistan (76%), Nigeria (51%), and relatively minor support in Lebanon (6% in favor) and Turkey (5%).[114]

This is pretty backwards thinking. I will grant you. The thought of this still being so prominent in modern society as a whole is pretty shocking to say the least. Still, the evidence suggests that European countries are far less accepting of it and so the shooting in Paris is STILL a minority incident in Europe.

There are different schools of the largest denomination of Muslims(Sunni) that do all have a large number of different beliefs (including the Hanafi who seem to be quite tolerant of various http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanafi#Differences) but I have yet to find any stats as to suggest which schools are most prominent in modern society.

Not dissimilar to Christianity in many ways it will develop(and perhaps be abandoned?) eventually.

dtokez · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:49

sityeuropa said:
People are not just becoming more moderate with Christianity, people are waking up and leaving it.

We know about evolution, we know about astronomy, we know how insignificant we are compared to the universe. We now know that sky pixies don't exist.

Some of us do, but the amount of children getting brainwashed into religion is unbelievable

A muslim family has moved in next door to my parents, they have been there less than two years, came with 3 children, have had 2 so far in that house and due another one soon. They have started dressing the young girls in full burkas.....

Skunkworks · 8 Jan 2015 at 12:50

Stretch said:
Not directly related to the killings in Paris

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/isis-beheaded-a-street-magician/ar-AA7SmeX

Can anyone actually imagine living in the same world as these people? I find it impossible to imagine why anyone, Muslim or otherwise would ever want to live by their rules, let alone fight for them. If Sharia was imposed on the world, does anyone actually believe the violence would stop. It's mob sociopathy. Violence is the aim, not the means.

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The intentions of Islam might be good, but there's only one place these people are going. Hell on earth.

ISIS going out in a blaze of barbarity.