Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

NeilFawcett said:
And the Pope shows how out of sync he is with modern (civilised) culture - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30838667



Ummm, yes you can. It's called free speech and is healthy, normal and necessary!


Maybe he should watch The Life Of Bryan. Would he go out on a sanctimonious shoot spree afterwards?
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Look, its ok for freedom of speech, i agree with that but, as a 'normal' human being i also would never go out of my way to insult another person! Would you? This is what the Pope is saying.

Ok, the press can print what they like. That is fine. Its just that the world is full of people insulting each other without any care of the consequences.
 
koolpc said:
Look, its ok for freedom of speech, i agree with that but, as a 'normal' human being i also would never go out of my way to insult another person! Would you? This is what the Pope is saying.

Ok, the press can print what they like. That is fine. Its just that the world is full of people insulting each other without any care of the consequences.
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Why is the Pope talking about this particular topic? Is it because some people got shot for seemingly doing little more than putting some lines on some sheets of paper?

So what does his comments suggest in this context? To me it comes across almost as they got what they deserved surely? "you cannot provoke, you cannot insult the faith of others."


So are you suggesting religion should somehow be immune to our sarcasm and jibes? I'd suggest quite the opposite as it's necessary and healthy. Now if people choose to be offended by it, fine. That's their choice!

Basically his comments are ill-timed and in poor taste IMHO, but hardly suprising given the basis of the corner stone of his belief/reality. ie: Religion and all that it says in its doctrines are greater than anything else. And that unfortunately is also the reason a dozen people died last week too!
 
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NeilFawcett said:
Why is the Pope talking about this particular topic? Is it because some people got shot for seemingly doing little more than putting some lines on some sheets of paper?

So what does his comments suggest in this context? To me it comes across almost as they got what they deserved surely? "you cannot provoke, you cannot insult the faith of others."


So are you suggesting religion should somehow be immune to our sarcasm and jibes? I'd suggest quite the opposite as it's necessary and healthy. Now if people choose to be offended by it, fine. That's their choice!

Basically his comments are ill-timed and in poor taste IMHO, but hardly suprising given the basis of the corner stone of his belief/reality. ie: Religion and all that it says in its doctrines are greater than anything else. And that unfortunately is also the reason a dozen people died last week too!
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No, he is just trying to get people to realise what can happen when one deliberately goes out to insult someone be it whatever religion or race etc.

Did the people deliberately intend to insult Islam? If so, then they knew what might happen, thus putting themselves at risk. The Pope is asking people to be a bit more careful and considerate in what they say/print. We all know that what he says will be taken with a pinch of salt. Its just the matter that where some organisations are involved one has to remember that bad things can come from insulting them. Should that stop the press from saying the things they say? Well, obviously not as we do live in a free speech environment. I for one applaud free speech but on the other hand if you know it will cause harm then one should tread carefully as some people will go to extreme lengths to retaliate for those insulting words. This is where unfortunate people end up losing their lives etc etc.
 
NeilFawcett said:
Why is the Pope talking about this particular topic? Is it because some people got shot for seemingly doing little more than putting some lines on some sheets of paper?

So what does his comments suggest in this context? To me it comes across almost as they got what they deserved surely? "you cannot provoke, you cannot insult the faith of others."


So are you suggesting religion should somehow be immune to our sarcasm and jibes? I'd suggest quite the opposite as it's necessary and healthy. Now if people choose to be offended by it, fine. That's their choice!

Basically his comments are ill-timed and in poor taste IMHO, but hardly suprising given the basis of the corner stone of his belief/reality. ie: Religion and all that it says in its doctrines are greater than anything else. And that unfortunately is also the reason a dozen people died last week too!
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You said it yourself when you used the word insult, freedom of speech does not give us the right to insult other, it's there to evoke debate and question things, how is it a freedom of speech to depict an image of a prophet knowing it will insult followers of that faith
 
The pope makes a good point. How would you like it if someone insults your mother or father, or how about your son or daughter?

Sure we wouldnt kill them but none the less even in a court of law you would be seen as being provoked into whatever you said back or did.

Freedom of speech still or provocation? Whilst you may make pointless arguments that God doesnt exist theres no denying that the people charlies lot depict defo exist or existed.
 
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The ugly truth behind religions, delivered by the pope himself.

If you don't see what's wrong with what he is actually saying, then you're beyond hopeless.
 
NeilFawcett said:
And the Pope shows how out of sync he is with modern (civilised) culture - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30838667

Ummm, yes you can. It's called free speech and is healthy, normal and necessary!

Maybe he should watch The Life Of Bryan. Would he go out on a sanctimonious shoot spree afterwards?
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Hmm, didn't Jesus say to turn the other cheek to such things? Genuine question there but hasn't he just gone against one of the biggest Christian teachings?
 
This entire affair boils down to 2 groups of nasty people winding each other up.
I'm not charlie and I'm not Jihadi.

I'm just a normal level headed person that doesn't go around shooting people and hiding behind religion or poking fun at peoples beliefs and hide behind freedom of speech.

They are both as bad as each other in my book.
 
darreny said:
You said it yourself when you used the word insult, freedom of speech does not give us the right to insult other, it's there to evoke debate and question things, how is it a freedom of speech to depict an image of a prophet knowing it will insult followers of that faith
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Again, the ONLY reason this topic has come up with the Pope, is because of the recent shootings. So given twelve people died over a magazine unwilling to back down over its satirisation of Islam, how do you translate his comment along the lines of, if you insults someone, you'll get a reaction?

Did he say, people should be free to express themselves? Violence is wrong? No, he instead said, "you cannot provoke, you cannot insult the faith of others." ie: If you insult Islam, you risk getting shot... In short, you're not actually free to do that!

That's how I translate what he's saying... Of all the things to say given people died over satirisation - "you cannot provoke, you cannot insult the faith of others." What did all those people march for exactly last weekend?


Xordium said:
Hmm, didn't Jesus say to turn the other cheek to such things? Genuine question there but hasn't he just gone against one of the biggest Christian teachings?
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He's gone against that sound/logical principle, and IMHO, implied they in some shape or form deserved what they got - "you cannot provoke, you cannot insult the faith of others."
 
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Xordium said:
Hmm, didn't Jesus say to turn the other cheek to such things? Genuine question there but hasn't he just gone against one of the biggest Christian teachings?
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Yes you are correct, Jesus taught his followers to love others and to be peaceful. If someone should strike the Christian the Christian can not strike back but i'm 100% sure the Christian can defend themselves. The Bible Hub says 'the sum of all is, that Christians must avoid disputing and striving'.
 
Was Life of Brian or Father Ted reason enough to have Catholics beheading people or running into supermarkets with AK47s? Both are blasphemous or critical of organised religion to some extent - satire or comedy isn't limited to arguably mean-spirited cartoons.

Too many muslims are precious little flowers that insist their beliefs should be held inviolable in a secular society. Not gonna happen.
 
darreny said:
You said it yourself when you used the word insult, freedom of speech does not give us the right to insult other, it's there to evoke debate and question things, how is it a freedom of speech to depict an image of a prophet knowing it will insult followers of that faith
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Let's get this into perspective here, the "insult" in question is simply to draw their prophet, so not only are Muslims forbidden to do this but so is every one else? even non Muslims? sorry no, these offended muslims need to grow a thicker skin because their prophet and their religion mean nothing to so many and shouldn't be singled out for special treatment.
 
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