ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

Above&Beyond said:
You can't know that any more than I can. A stable Iraqi government will help the region but if we leave a load of advanced weapons and trained soldiers with people who have old scores to settle it will be another bloodbath in a few years.
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You're now contradicting yourself because we've left it in that situation already. Invading will lead to another power vacuum just like the one IS and similar are born from. Standing back and helping the locals is less certain to do so.

The Iraqi army that deserted just don't care. For a soldier to care requires patriotism/nationalism. Simply put, a faith in their country and what they are defending. Why should anyone care after a decade of foreign invasion and control? Before that a sadistic regime. Before that more foreign invasion etc. This cycle can only stop if it actually stops. Pretending that this time is any different is not going to work. Another foreign invasion will destabilise the region even more, and incite more reasons to hate the invaders. I don't want it to be us that invades, I want the locals and neighbours to take a stand and tackle this without foreign invasion.
 
Dj_Jestar said:
You're now contradicting yourself because we've left it in that situation already. Invading will lead to another power vacuum just like the one IS and similar are born from. Standing back and helping the locals is less certain to do so.

The Iraqi army that deserted just don't care. For a soldier to care requires patriotism/nationalism. Simply put, a faith in their country and what they are defending. Why should anyone care after a decade of foreign invasion and control? Before that a sadistic regime. Before that more foreign invasion etc. This cycle can only stop if it actually stops. Pretending that this time is any different is not going to work. Another foreign invasion will destabilise the region even more, and incite more reasons to hate the invaders. I don't want it to be us that invades, I want the locals and neighbours to take a stand and tackle this without foreign invasion.
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There is no ready made government to just slot in, but that doesn't mean you just say oh well a power vacuum just leave them to it.

The Iraqi army had $25 billion worth of training and equipment from the US and 30,000 surrendered in an hour to 500 rebels because they were undisciplined and had low morale. What is to stop that happening again? I wouldn't let them just get on with it unless we closely supervised it which would mean boots on the ground and at the rate they need trained it would mean quite a few.
 
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Orionaut said:
2:1 on the ******.

The authorities are even more scared of upsetting the ****** than they are of upsetting the Muslims!

:p
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In a straight fist-fight I'd definitely back the ******, however Sharia punishments for thieving may handicap our Irish friends eventually.
 
Why did Europe allow thousands of extremists to travel to Syria? I don’t remember that happening in the Iraq and Afghan war and I doubt they would have allowed it to happen then.
 
ozzyuk said:
Why did Europe allow thousands of extremists to travel to Syria? I don’t remember that happening in the Iraq and Afghan war and I doubt they would have allowed it to happen then.
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Then you have a short memory, It did happen. There were plenty of European fighters in both country's. Rather famously the brummies that got picked up by the Nimrods.

More are going this time I imagine as its a slightly more "just" war in their minds (cultural and social over nationalistic) and ISIS are actively recruiting Europeans in greater numbers where as Iraq and Afghan previously just relied of vast numbers of Pakistanis as well as locals which isn't featuring as heavily this time.

There are cases of people being stopped going to Syria but if you have no idea whose going to go...how would you stop them?
 
So the UK are commiting units to Jordan. At least on the face of things, they are non combatant units. This is going to be the case for most of the near future I think. Offer support in a non aggressive method. Not only does it help our status with the pro WESTERN ME States, it also means fewer locals retaliating from our relentless bombings. So essentially we are just assisting their in-fighting.
 
Don't think they really make that distinction. Example, the 2 Japanese executions. A country that wasn't even offering non lethal aid.
And we already have troops in Iraq, and still bombing them. Its not really "none aggressive".

Its an interesting move though. There's definitely a change of pace happening with jordan being central to it.
 
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Nutella33 said:
Don't think they really make that distinction. Example, the 2 Japanese executions. A country that wasn't even offering non lethal aid.
And we already have troops in Iraq, and still bombing them. Its not really "none aggressive".

Its an interesting move though. There's definitely a change of pace happening with jordan being central to it.
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IS won't differentiate, but "surgical" cruise missiles can potentially turn innocent locals into IS sympathisers. That's what I was getting at.

On the world stage it is good for our government to be seen to be doing something without the backlash of bombing on a scale that we saw in Baghdad say. It's going to be an ISR campaign for much of the process I believe, with the onus on the likes of Jordan to carry out their own dirty work. Looks like SENINTEL won't be getting switched off any time soon like planned with past SDSRs.
 
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Fair enough! Makes sense.

Yeah who would have thought. I was always surprised it was going to have such a short life. Still next SDR in may, all change again, mad hatters table etc.

Hitman_Leon said:
They were/are offering non lethal aid, that was the reason ISIS decided to threaten the Japanese hostages in the first place before they executed them.
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Yes I was confused, I read an article recently claiming otherwise as Abe was using the killing to increase funding and support for the constitutional change. Weren't the captives taken previous to the 200million aid package announcement though? It was only the aid package announcement that prompted the blackmail announcement? they were already in ISIS hands.
 
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