Windows 10

i don't get the issue with the UI.

people wanted a start menu back. they've put a start menu back now which as a added feature of having titles which can be easily removed.
 
Rroff said:
It might be old but the start menu isn't broken - its design didn't just evolve that way by accident either... and progress for progress sake is just retarded. I fully understand that the start menu isn't for every one and neither is the Windows 7 aesthetics - I fully embrace an OS update that includes functionality that allows people to customise the OS to look and behave in a manner that is as close as possible to optimal for them and I fully understand that for some people the start menu doesn't work for them at all but equally there are a lot of people where the alternatives don't work for them either.

(i.e. in that example I can just click start, click calculator and away I go - no need to have a clutter of utilities pinned to the taskbar (which has my main programs), no need to start typing for it in search or have a big screen pop up over everything I'm doing, etc.)

Just because a newer OS isn't "hard to use or adapt to" doesn't mean that it is a superior or even comparable experience to a previous one - if you look at my screenshot I'm trying (and failing due to the short-sightedness and plain bad work of the developers) to create a start menu that would have been a superior and compelling alternative to what is available in Windows 7 that would be even more optimal than what I have with Windows 7. I fully get that MS is trying to embrace the app ecosystem but its position within the OS doesn't even provide a comparable experience to traditional workflow let alone a superior and compelling one.



My post covers both functionality and form (I kind of hoped the red cross over the icon would clue people into that) - as above I get that they are trying to move towards the app ecosystem but it goes beyond the broken functionality with integrating desktop programs into the start system but also there are many other parts of the OS which would be useful to integrate into it i.e. shortcuts to system settings which either you simply can't or are completely random in how they work with it. The image also illustrates a number of functionality issues with the start menu though they might not be so easy to pickup on without having played around with it such as the inability to hide the blank titles or proper group management.
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That is the problem there and yes it is broke in a way ie Win7 Start menu is designed by default for desktop PC only,Win10 is designed to be more versatile for obvious reasons being that OS covers ALL types of hardware, yes in a way you are living in the past forgetting hardware and OS changed and evolve over time,tablets,touch etc were not around in the old days,you have to realize desktop PC is only a small percentage of hardware that is now available in modern types,Win7 and older Operating Systems don't cover the newer hardware and latest technology available today.


Consider this I find it many ironic users were moaning about lack of Start button menu on Win8/8.1,Microsoft bring one out on 10 that is pretty versatile and guess what?.. same users are still moaning,ironic indeed.


Btw nothing superior about the old Win7 Start menu,even Linux has a lot of superior ones that blow Win7 out of the water and that's on a lot of different Linux distros I could name.
 
Elevon said:
That is the problem there and yes it is broke in a way ie Win7 Start menu is designed by default for desktop PC only,Win10 is designed to be more versatile for obvious reasons being that OS covers ALL types of hardware, yes in a way you are living in the past forgetting hardware and OS changed and evolve over time,tablets,touch etc were not around in the old days,you have to realize desktop PC is only a small percentage of hardware that is now available in modern types,Win7 and older Operating Systems don't cover the newer hardware and latest technology available today.


Consider this I find it many ironic users were moaning about lack of Start button menu on Win8/8.1,Microsoft bring one out on 10 that is pretty versatile and guess what?.. same users are still moaning,ironic indeed.


Btw nothing superior about the old Win7 Start menu,even Linux has a lot of superior ones that blow Win7 out of the water and that's on a lot of different Linux distros I could name.
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I have Windows 8 on my tablet pretty much dressed up like my Windows 7 desktop including a hand made start system and it just works even on an 8" touchscreen (took a bit of effort to make Windows 8 nice).

I'm not claiming there is anything superior about the Windows 7 start menu but it mostly just works, sure there are areas that it is lacking but Windows 10 so far doesn't address those issues well enough while lacking several areas where Windows 7's just worked.

I even created a custom version of blackbox (or fluxbox - so long ago can't remember which was which) on debian with a start menu that blows Windows 7's out the water but for various reasons Linux isn't a replacement for a desktop OS for me none the least getting games to run, etc. and I use a lot of development utilities that will never exist on Linux.
 
Elevon said:
Consider this I find it many ironic users were moaning about lack of Start button menu on Win8/8.1,Microsoft bring one out on 10 that is pretty versatile and guess what?.. same users are still moaning,ironic indeed.
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Ever heard the phrase "a compromise that pleases no one" ?

Instead of having one UI that tries to be all things to all people, they could have had an optimised touch UI, that you could switch off and use an optimised desktop UI as required, with customisations thrown in for those that want it.

You don't use the same control scheme on a plane as a car, or boat or submarine. Why do we have to have the same UI for phones, tablets, touchscreens, mouse/KB, etc. Why not have the best UI for each as needed?
 
Steampunk said:
Ever heard the phrase "a compromise that pleases no one" ?

Instead of having one UI that tries to be all things to all people, they could have had an optimised touch UI, that you could switch off and use an optimised desktop UI as required, with customisations thrown in for those that want it.

You don't use the same control scheme on a plane as a car, or boat or submarine. Why do we have to have the same UI for phones, tablets, touchscreens, mouse/KB, etc. Why not have the best UI for each as needed?
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there is 2 UI modes, in windows 10, desktop mode and table mode
 
I know I should search but it's next to impossible and I'm not reading through nearly 4k of posts in this thread :p

I have four full retail copies of Windows 7 (three HP and one Pro). Obviously I'm entitled to simply upgrade these to Windows 10 when the time comes via Windows Update but do I also have the option of downloading an ISO and doing a clean install on a new drive? What about product keys - can I request Windows 10 ones for each of my 7 licences?

Thanks for any info or pointers to a good source of info - so damned confusing!
 
Thing is you can have one UI for all pretty much - a lot of it comes down to how you structure the data that is used to define what elements are onscreen and what properties they have - its not that difficult if your data format is well thought out to swap on the fly from representing it in a desktop or tablet friendly fashion.

(Also helps if you use an atomic approach rather than hard defining controls).
 
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Vertigo1 said:
I know I should search but it's next to impossible and I'm not reading through nearly 4k of posts in this thread :p

I have four full retail copies of Windows 7 (three HP and one Pro). Obviously I'm entitled to simply upgrade these to Windows 10 when the time comes via Windows Update but do I also have the option of downloading an ISO and doing a clean install on a new drive? What about product keys - can I request Windows 10 ones for each of my 7 licences?

Thanks for any info or pointers to a good source of info - so damned confusing!
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You will need to have your 7 copies installed and activated, and then update them to 10 within the OS. This turns your 7 key into a 10 key. You can then either format and install from an ISO, or just use the Reset PC option inside 10 that does that anyway.
 
Vertigo1 said:
I know I should search but it's next to impossible and I'm not reading through nearly 4k of posts in this thread :p

I have four full retail copies of Windows 7 (three HP and one Pro). Obviously I'm entitled to simply upgrade these to Windows 10 when the time comes via Windows Update but do I also have the option of downloading an ISO and doing a clean install on a new drive? What about product keys - can I request Windows 10 ones for each of my 7 licences?

Thanks for any info or pointers to a good source of info - so damned confusing!
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after upgrade you then will be able to clean install windows 10 via iso. you won't need to enter any keys as it will automatic activate via your hardware ID
 
Skeeter said:
You will need to have your 7 copies installed and activated, and then update them to 10 within the OS. This turns your 7 key into a 10 key. You can then either format and install from an ISO, or just use the Reset PC option inside 10 that does that anyway.
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from what i've read and seen it doesn't.
 
Skeeter said:
You will need to have your 7 copies installed and activated, and then update them to 10 within the OS. This turns your 7 key into a 10 key. You can then either format and install from an ISO, or just use the Reset PC option inside 10 that does that anyway.
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Seriously - the only way to get a W10 key is to upgrade first? If I do that, how do I then get the upgraded key for future installations? - With W7 you had to use a key extractor to get at it.

gareth170 said:
after upgrade you then will be able to clean install windows 10 via iso. you won't need to enter any keys as it will automatic activate via your hardware ID
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Erm, automatic activation via hardware ID? My copies are retail, meaning I can reinstall them on different hardware as many times as I like. Do you mean that the copy of W10 I get will effectively be OEM and tied to one machine?
 
Vertigo1 said:
Erm, automatic activation via hardware ID? My copies are retail, meaning I can reinstall them on different hardware as many times as I like. Do you mean that the copy of W10 I get will effectively be OEM and tied to one machine?
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thats an unanswered question about retail users.

but one said this

Q: What happens if I change the hardware configuration of my Windows 10 device?

A: If the hardware configuration of your Windows 10 device changes significantly (e.g. motherboard change) Windows may require re-activation on the device. This is the same experience as prior versions of Windows (e.g. Windows 7 and Windows 8.1). The free upgrade offer will not apply to activation of Windows 10 in such scenarios where hardware changes reset Activation.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-upgrade/578d0b7f-57e4-4893-b9d1-6cfac0d6290a
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So basically they're only offering a free Windows 10 OEM upgrade for my Windows 7 retail licences and, if my motherboard changes down the road, I'll have to buy it all over again.

Cheap trick Microsoft. Sure you don't have to provide anything for free but making a big song and dance about how it's a free upgrade for all 7 & 8 users and then trying to hide little caveats like this stinks.
 
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