I'm not an SNP supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but frankly, it hasn't been derailed by the SNP. It's been derailed by the fact it wasn't an issue commanding overwhelming support within the house, and Cameron could never whip his 330 MPs (329 being from English/Welsh constituencies). SNP involvement is more a nail in the coffin than anything else.
Poll: Fox Hunting
- Thread starter Burnsy2023
- Start date
Associate
So Scottish MPs wanted to vote against the proposals to align hunting to mirror how they are currently in Scotland...... double standards much?
Associate
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Smoke and mirrors - the SNP didnt actually vote did they because the Conservatives withdrew it, I suspect because they knew it would fail anyway as the back bench conservatives would vote against.
Im not sure the SNP have done themselves any favours here, but either way it shows how unstable a majority of 12 is.
Im not sure the SNP have done themselves any favours here, but either way it shows how unstable a majority of 12 is.
Associate
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- 353
Aren't there now more foxes in cities than in the countryside?
Fox hunting with dogs is just barbaric. End of.
Fox hunting with dogs is just barbaric. End of.
SNP involvement wasn't what derailed it no, lack of SNP uninvolvement was. With the SNP abstaining voting against it Cameron needed 295 votes to win, with the SNP against it he needs 323, he still has the MP's to force it but it would be much much harder.
Nah, most of them are splattered alongside motorways and dual carriageways (seriously they are like the most common UK roadkill you see lol).
Two questions for every one who has posted here.
Have you any personal experience of fox hunting?
Is all you know about fox hunting from second hand information?
I'm curious how many of you actually know anything about fox hunting or the people who are involved with it. Most of what I hear is 'bloody richers, doing their richer bloodsports' typically from people who live a long ways away from the earthy side of the country.
Personally I can take hunting or leave it. I used to go as a kid, my grandparents and parents were footies, so it was a thing we used to do. Rarely would anyone catch or kill a fox. A whole day out would result in nothing.
What is more disturbing is the stopping of holes, or the digging out of an animal that has gone to ground. There's no fairness in that.
Times when the pack did catch a fox in the open usually meant the leader caught the fox and broke its neck, this happens very quickly and given how big a fox hound is compared even to an adult male fox this is not surprising. Many of the animals were either old or diseased, or were lame from farmers shooting at them with shotguns (the minimum calibre for foxes should be .223).
There's a whole lot more to the issue on both sides than many are willing to entertain - particularly when emotive words like 'cruelty' and 'sport' are being used.
Fox hunting is not my thing, and hasn't been for many years, but I still know quite a few people who are involved with my local hunt. They have a lad who rides about on a quad bike or on foot, dragging a scent trail behind him, about a half hour ahead of the hounds etc.
It seems to work pretty well, and despite everyone doing their best to adhere to the ban, locals, farmers, footties and the like are still all abused and threatened by a bunch of unwashed hippies who get paid ~ £25 per day to disrupt the day. £25 on top of their dole, a day out and free food - At least this is my knowledge of how things are.
The disruption of drag hunting includes attempting to call the hounds away with a horn, which has lead to several incidents of hounds being killed on the roads because they became separated from the others. This is a 'success' and something to be proud of apparently. Not to mention grown men and women trying to drag a 14 year old boy off his horse and give him a kicking. Had it not been for some of the other riders they might have succeeded. The police who were in attendance just stood by and did nothing, until the saboteurs claimed they were assaulted, then they were taking names and statements.
The whole business is quite ugly, and its polarising nature is reflected here.
As I say, hunting is not my thing. But I know enough about it to understand there's more going on than just what you read in the papers or hear down the student union bar. With that in mind, if people want to hunt foxes, or go drag hunting I say let them. And if legislation needs looking at again, then it should be done without a class agenda which is, for the most part, a fabrication.
That said, the ban means little to me either way if it stays or goes.
Have you any personal experience of fox hunting?
Is all you know about fox hunting from second hand information?
I'm curious how many of you actually know anything about fox hunting or the people who are involved with it. Most of what I hear is 'bloody richers, doing their richer bloodsports' typically from people who live a long ways away from the earthy side of the country.
Personally I can take hunting or leave it. I used to go as a kid, my grandparents and parents were footies, so it was a thing we used to do. Rarely would anyone catch or kill a fox. A whole day out would result in nothing.
What is more disturbing is the stopping of holes, or the digging out of an animal that has gone to ground. There's no fairness in that.
Times when the pack did catch a fox in the open usually meant the leader caught the fox and broke its neck, this happens very quickly and given how big a fox hound is compared even to an adult male fox this is not surprising. Many of the animals were either old or diseased, or were lame from farmers shooting at them with shotguns (the minimum calibre for foxes should be .223).
There's a whole lot more to the issue on both sides than many are willing to entertain - particularly when emotive words like 'cruelty' and 'sport' are being used.
Fox hunting is not my thing, and hasn't been for many years, but I still know quite a few people who are involved with my local hunt. They have a lad who rides about on a quad bike or on foot, dragging a scent trail behind him, about a half hour ahead of the hounds etc.
It seems to work pretty well, and despite everyone doing their best to adhere to the ban, locals, farmers, footties and the like are still all abused and threatened by a bunch of unwashed hippies who get paid ~ £25 per day to disrupt the day. £25 on top of their dole, a day out and free food - At least this is my knowledge of how things are.
The disruption of drag hunting includes attempting to call the hounds away with a horn, which has lead to several incidents of hounds being killed on the roads because they became separated from the others. This is a 'success' and something to be proud of apparently. Not to mention grown men and women trying to drag a 14 year old boy off his horse and give him a kicking. Had it not been for some of the other riders they might have succeeded. The police who were in attendance just stood by and did nothing, until the saboteurs claimed they were assaulted, then they were taking names and statements.
The whole business is quite ugly, and its polarising nature is reflected here.
As I say, hunting is not my thing. But I know enough about it to understand there's more going on than just what you read in the papers or hear down the student union bar. With that in mind, if people want to hunt foxes, or go drag hunting I say let them. And if legislation needs looking at again, then it should be done without a class agenda which is, for the most part, a fabrication.
That said, the ban means little to me either way if it stays or goes.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
They are not sticking up for what the English believe in, they are scoring petty political points, on this occasion it just coincidently aligned with what the general public worked.
Beautifully done really.
Deleted member 66701
D
Deleted member 66701
[TW]Fox;28309961 said:
I don't think an ethics issue can soley be an English issue (ignoring the elephant in the room of current Scottish hunting laws ofc, although the SNP have expressed a desire to align them with England).
It's like if Tories were planning to bring back capital punishment but only for England, I'd hope the SNP would step in and vote against that too.
Either way, Camerons just been torn a new one - another nail in his premiership I think.
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Soldato
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- 8 Mar 2007
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Whereas 20 odd people on horseback with 40 plus hounds vs one fox (who as you go on to say is probably old and lame) is fair?
That's OK then. Next time a pensioner is stabbed dead, I'll be waiting for your comment "He was old and lame anyway".
The ban doesn't save foxes from either death or cruelty. They just die slowly from septicemia after being shot.
Soldato
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- 3 Jun 2005
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Every single one?
Soldato
Shot quite a few some years ago when I did pest control for a few farmers so I'm not fussed about a dead fox but I've never been a fan of the hunt.
Soldato
Well played SNP, well played...
If you think scoring an own goal is well played, the SNP did great. Smacked themselves right in the face with the ball as it bounced over the line.
The SNP were amazingly foolish to intervene on an exclusively English/Welsh issue, and strengthen the need for legislation to prevent this kind of opportunistic messing around. Just whose constituents were the SNP representing, and where is democratic accountability here? No ones, and it's not present. The SNP might as well start to argue they should intervene in another country's democratic affairs, which I do not put beyond them, given their arrogance, how belligerent they have become, all fueled by the deluded leftwingery they preach.
That the SNP chose to flex their muscles on this issue, regarding fox hunting, was remarkably daft. Cameron (who knew he would lose even if the SNP abstained), deliberately tried to smoke the SNP out and see if they would dare to vote on English/Welsh issues. Because the issue at hand is a relatively minor one, Cameron could cancel the vote and allow the whole English Votes for English Laws point to dominate, as it rightly has. Now, if the SNP had been smarter and waited for some issue to crop up which Cameron could not cancel the vote on so easily (these kind of issues just do happen over the course of a parliament, only a matter of waiting), and then timed their voting on English/Welsh matters to defeat Cameron on a matter of greater substance, then real damage might have been done to the Tories.
But the SNP, like babies with rattles, could not resist making a noise, and making tougher legislation to prevent this kind of screwing around of theirs more likely.
Totally against fox hunting...I have a few living near me...I'm rural and they are totally amazing things to see in the wild.
Zappa my collie even leaves them to their business.
Saw one the other day at 6am letting the dog out and Zappa froze....it was ace .
Zappa my collie even leaves them to their business.
Saw one the other day at 6am letting the dog out and Zappa froze....it was ace .
I'd feel the same way about badgers, but I still recognise the need to regularly cull such pests in a farming community.
Rural doesn't mean 'wildlife park'
The SNP really made a good case for strengthening the evel proposals as it is clear that the Scots can currently block both additional restriction and additional liberalisation of rights in England, and the current proposals only solve the first part. We need a smarter provision that means the Scots can't block the least restrictive measure, whatever that may be.