AMD likely to win Nintendo NX and continue console dominance

[andybird123]

The old generation 1 and gen 2 pure ray tracing chips have been on the market ages and since discontinued. The 3rd generation hybrid chip has only just gone in silicon and hasn’t entered mass production. Why would you expect to buy the current silicon now? It’s only just entered first silicon this month.

I said that this is a year away from being in an actual product (pointing out that another gen of desktop hardware would be on shelves by then) and you replied to say that it was live hardware now, so where is it?
it's a demo, it isn't an actual on the shelves product, but maxwell is here now and nvidia have raytracing based demos running and the tools ready for integration

Where are you getting only a x2 increase from! The relative graphic performance has increased by well over x100. How much depends on which area you are looking at.

http://s15.postimg.org/msyai05iy/Power_VR.jpg how can you say they have not hit that goal?

actual graphics benchmarks show that a 6series gets around double the performance of a 5 series... no where near 100x, I'm not even sure what that graph is supposed to show but its not from an actual graphics app or benchmark is it? it talks about area and efficiency so there's some massive "performance per watt" based fudging going on there isn't there

I don’t remember them ever saying desktop rivalling performance within 3 years. Where have you got that from?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Im...PU-Series6-PowerVR-Series5-PowerVR,12226.html
same comment on anandtech and a few other sites
"The British chip-maker this week announced a new set of mobile GPUs, the Series6 PowerVR series, codenamed Rogue, that it claims could rival the processing power of desktop GPUs in three years time."

I have yet to see any evidence of that. All I see is you saying the opposite to what all the high end GPU Engineers are saying at GDC. Even NVidia are on the same page as Imagination. Both NVidia and Imagination/PowerVR Engineers stood up and gave separate presentations on ray tracing shadow and lights being better and fixing a bunch of problems. Both talk about a Hybid solution not pure ray tracing.

well, surely don't you think if nvidia are talking about raytracing it means they are already working on it, hence why they have demos of it on their site running on their own gpu's


PowerVR's demos are no more impressive than Nvidia's, and neither are in games yet... nvidia have the tools available and DX12 might mean these games are here in the next 12 months (huge pinch of salt), but if PowerVR don't even properly have the tools out there yet, then games can't be taking advantage of it that are in development now, which means they are at least 2 years away (with the same pinch of salt on it actually being longer)... yes raytracing will happen, but not I don't think PowerVR are massively ahead of anyone else... there's a couple of demos floating about, big whoop, colour me excited when we actually have working applications with it

 

[Killer7xx]

Is it a coincidence that the Fury Nano is now being trailed?

Well I guess if they do make an APU with the CPU based on the Zen architecture and the GPU based on Fiji, then the hardware will be relevant for a long time. Initial costs may be higher but the hardware would age very well, probably going deep into the PS5/xbox2 era, they could potentially profit a lot when the product matures.

The Wii U has enough quality titles coming in the near future, e.g. starfox, mario maker and Zelda, which can sustain it for another year. With Zen being released in early-mid 2016, AMD have enough time to create and manufacture a Zen/Fiji based APU for release at the end of 2016 or 2017.

 

[Gerard]

Pottsey why is it whenever you post power vr inevitably gets brought up regardless of the topic? For a while physx seemed to distract you from it now its back to power vr.

 

[Orangey]

Pottsey why is it whenever you post power vr inevitably gets brought up regardless of the topic? For a while physx seemed to distract you from it now its back to power vr.

Do one thing and do it well...

 

[Pottsey]

“actual graphics benchmarks show that a 6 series gets around double the performance of a 5 series...”

That’s just not true. There is more than a double performance difference between different versions of series 6 for example Series 6XT is well over double the performance of early versions of Series 6. The 6 clusters chips are well over double the performance of the single cluster chips. Yet alone comparing series 6 to series 5. How can you possibly justify saying only a double performance difference between series 5 to 6?

There is more than a 100x performance difference between the lowest early versions of series 5 to the newest highest end series 6. You don’t even need to dig though benchmarks just look at the specs of the SGX520 compared to a GX6650. The ALU benchmarks went from 1.9fps to over 185.7fps. Fillrate went from 232 MTexels to over 7594 MTexels. But somehow you call that only double performance gain?

“PowerVR's demos are no more impressive than Nvidia's, and neither are in games yet...”

At GDC NVidia managed to get 1 light source working with 1000+ watt chain of high end GPU’s working together. While PowerVR at GDC not only did that on 1 single low watt chip but they used more than 1 light source. But that’s no more impressive?

“Nvidia have the tools available and DX12 might mean these games are here in the next 12 months (huge pinch of salt), but if PowerVR don't even properly have the tools out there yet, then games can't be taking advantage of it that are in development now,”

It’s the other way around. PowerVR are already working with major game engines like Unity. NVidia are the ones with no tools. PowerVR have been working behind the scenes setting up the eco system for 3 years now. PowerVR are the only ones with realistic working silicon for developers to start coding on. Unity already makes use of PowerVR ray tracing for game development. The PowerVR Ray Tracing SDK came out in 2012 and has been in the hands of developers for a while. I already have a few Ray Tracing apps installed on my PC. How can you say they don’t have the tools?
http://community.imgtec.com/developers/powervr/openrl-sdk/ Between that and Unity I see a long list of tools.

“raytracing will happen, but not I don't think PowerVR are massively ahead of anyone else... there's a couple of demos floating about, big whoop, colour me excited when we actually have working applications with it “

We already have working applications.

"The British chip-maker this week announced a new set of mobile GPUs, the Series6 PowerVR series, codenamed Rogue, that it claims could rival the processing power of desktop GPUs in three years time."

Did you click the source? It’s another news website. Anyway is it that wrong? The highest end Series 6 IP designs today do match some desktop GPUs from 3 years ago don’t they?

 

[Pottsey]

Pottsey why is it whenever you post power vr inevitably gets brought up regardless of the topic? For a while physx seemed to distract you from it now its back to power vr.

This is directly related to PowerVR. Nintendo have short listed AMD and PowerVR as the choice for a next gen console. I have no idea who they will go with but it seems on topic to me. As for why when I post PowerVR inevitably get brought up that's because I trend to post in PowerVR related threads.

 

[Gerard]

This is directly related to PowerVR. Nintendo have short listed AMD and PowerVR as the choice for a next gen console. I have no idea who they will go with but it seems on topic to me.

Whens the last time power vr have brought out anything in the desktop space that could even be considered to be of use in a console in either full or cut down variations? Its a certainty they will go with amd, been with them since the gamecube (technically art x which amd bought) but i don't see them changing.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I have a feeling they might go with AMD and a GCN GPU,at least for the GPU. Why?? It would mean a similar uarch GPU to the one in the PS4 and Xbox One,meaning cross-platform titles would more likely launch on the Nintendo console,as development would be easier.

 

[wazza300]

good for amd,i hope it goes ahead

 

[Gregster]

good for amd,i hope it goes ahead

Agreed Wazza.

 

[Pottsey]

Whens the last time power vr have brought out anything in the desktop space that could even be considered to be of use in a console in either full or cut down variations? Its a certainty they will go with amd, been with them since the gamecube (technically art x which amd bought) but i don't see them changing.

Why do they have to have anything in the desktop space to be able to do a console GPU or CPU? They have done console GPU and CPU's before and they have suitable console level IP designs for today and they support all the core features that desktop GPU do.

 

[Gerard]

Why do they have to have anything in the desktop space to be able to do a console GPU or CPU? They have done console GPU and CPU's before and they have suitable console level IP designs.

How long ago? Sega dream cast days last i heard and that was in 1998. They would need to have something on the go to prove to nintendo that they can meet what performance needs they have, with amd or nvidia nintendo can literally point to one of their gpu's and say "we'll have that", with power vr presumably it would be on paper.

 

[Orangey]

Back in the DC days PVR were making desktop parts. I don't think they'd know where to begin making a modern 300W part.

 

[Pottsey]

How long ago? Sega dream cast days last i heard and that was in 1998. They would need to have something on the go to prove to nintendo that they can meet what performance needs they have, with amd or nvidia nintendo can literally point to one of their gpu's and say "we'll have that", with power vr presumably it would be on paper.

Why would they need something on the go? That’s never mattered before. It was even the same situation when they did the Dreamcast, PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Vita.

 

[Gerard]

Why would they need something on the go? That’s never mattered before. It was even the same situation when they did the Dreamcast and PlayStation 2.

That was then, this is now. Besides making low power chips for phones whens the last time they tackled something that would be of the performance needed for a new console or desktop gpu? And as its already been said it would make more sense to go with something they can get backwards compatibility out of, going with powervr would be a bigger risk as they've not done anything of that scale in near 20 years.

 

[Pottsey]

That was then, this is now. Besides making low power chips for phones whens the last time they tackled something that would be of the performance needed for a new console or desktop gpu? And as its already been said it would make more sense to go with something they can get backwards compatibility out of, going with powervr would be a bigger risk as they've not done anything of that scale in near 20 years.

No idea off the top of my head. Not sure when the last arcade chips date back to. They never stopped tackling console chips though. They kept making designs that scale up to console and desktop level. Why are you so sure they cannot do that anymore? All they need to do is add a few clusters and few cores which has already been designed in and they are good to go. It’s a lot easier to scale up then it is to scale down.

Apple use a 6 cluster setup. The GPU scales to 16 clusters for console level performance. PowerVR have done it enough time in the past so I don't see why they would struggle now if asked again.

 

[Gerard]

No idea off the top of my head. Not sure when the last arcade chips date back to. They never stopped tackling console chips though. They kept making designs that scale up to console and desktop level. Why are you so sure they cannot do that anymore? All they need to do is add a few clusters and few cores which has already been designed in and they are good to go. It’s a lot easier to scale up then it is to scale down.

Apple use a 6 cluster setup. The GPU scales to 16 clusters for console level performance. PowerVR have done it enough time in the past so I don't see why they would struggle now if asked again.

Well if they do all these chips that scale to desktop level why do they never seem to come out with any? Their last big hurrah was the kyro 2 from what i can remember and after that they seemed to vanish from the pc gaming scene. Its ok saying they can do this and that, they never DO that's the problem.

 

[andybird123]

That’s just not true. There is more than a double performance difference between different versions of series 6 for example Series 6XT is well over double the performance of early versions of Series 6. The 6 clusters chips are well over double the performance of the single cluster chips. Yet alone comparing series 6 to series 5. How can you possibly justify saying only a double performance difference between series 5 to 6?

Did you click the source? It’s another news website. Anyway is it that wrong? The highest end Series 6 IP designs today do match some desktop GPUs from 3 years ago don’t they?

oh c'mon, seriously? comparing single to multi cluster?
so we're comparing a pentium dual core @1ghz to an 8 core i7 @ 4ghz to be able to say "WOW INTEL GIVES 32 TIMES PERFORMANCE FROM IVYBRIDGE TO HASWELL-E"... utter ********

same with your last comment... clearly if someone says "in 3 years our SoC's will rival desktop" they are not talking desktop from the past, they are talking desktop that are concurrent with the release date of the SoC, to suggest otherwise is also ********

 

[Pottsey]

oh c'mon, seriously? comparing single to multi cluster?
so we're comparing a pentium dual core @1ghz to an 8 core i7 @ 4ghz to be able to say "WOW INTEL GIVES 32 TIMES PERFORMANCE FROM IVYBRIDGE TO HASWELL-E"... utter ********

same with your last comment... clearly if someone says "in 3 years our SoC's will rival desktop" they are not talking desktop from the past, they are talking desktop that are concurrent with the release date of the SoC, to suggest otherwise is also ********

I am seriously comparing clusters why is that wrong? A cluster is not a core so why are you talking about muit cores? A 6 cluster chip with 2 cores would be 12 clusters. The fact is what you said about performance is wrong.

“same with your last comment... clearly if someone says "in 3 years our SoC's will rival desktop" they are not talking desktop from the past, they are talking desktop that are concurrent with the release date of the SoC, to suggest otherwise is also ********”This is the quote your link is based on

“The Series 6 PowerVR chips (codenamed 'Rogue') are expected to equal today's desktop PC processors – and by extension exceed today's HD consoles – within three years.” Clearly you have got confused and/or misunderstood something.

 

[andybird123]

Your still talking about more than one generation and cherry picking unlike chips, which isn't what they said

As always, powervr are completely irrelevant to any discussion in the PC GPU forum section, so ill leave you to your little fantasies.