The labour Leader thread...

I don't really identify with any party, but like many here I see why Corbyn appeals to so many. He genuinely seems on the side of the people, he's an experienced politician and frankly isn't just another nondescript man in a suit.

Andy Burnham to me is just some career politician without a set of core principles, Liz Kendall would totally fail to distinguish Labour from the Conservatives and would struggle to form a coherent and effective opposition, and though Yvette Cooper is who I initially wanted to lead the party, I don't think she makes a huge impact when she speaks.

I think Labour need to stop apologising for overspending in government and being on the back foot all the time when there's five years of Conservative government sitting there not being properly criticised. Stop taking the blame for "getting us into this mess in the first place" and defend Blair/Brown's record. Who is there bigging up the National Minimum Wage, which Cameron at the time disagreed with, who is talking about the improving educational standards, the improvements made to the NHS, the saving of the banks come the crash? Why is it only now they've started realising Goldman Sachs didn't crash because Blair/Brown spent money improving some of the fundamental pillar-stones of British society?

While I do agree with Tony Blair that Labour might struggle to win an election with Corbyn on the basis that he'll mostly only appeal to people who voted for Labour anyway and "rack up more votes" in seats they win, I do think he'd help revitalise British politics by distinguishing Labour from the Conservatives.
 
Tacitus said:
I don't really identify with any party, but like many here I see why Corbyn appeals to so many. He genuinely seems on the side of the people, he's an experienced politician and frankly isn't just another nondescript man in a suit.
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not really paying much attention but loadsa folk I know are joining the Labour party for £3 (or whatever it costs) so they can vote for this guy..
 
I can't see Labour lasting much longer if it goes to the left with Corbyn , ld see it splitting and I'd love it.

Hope so can't stand them .

Corbyn appeals because he has values which he stands by , a man of principles basically .

The rest are complete to$$ers who will say everything and anything to get a vote.
 
ReltonBFD said:
The rest are complete to$$ers who will say everything and anything to get a vote.
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If that was the case then why would Kendall say she didn't support recognising Palestine? That's not going to win her any votes. I think she does have principles, but those principles are not very well aligned to the sort of voters Labour appeals to.
 
PermaBanned said:
If that was the case then why would Kendall say she didn't support recognising Palestine? That's not going to win her any votes. I think she does have principles, but those principles are not very well aligned to the sort of voters Labour appeals to.
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I tend to agree. Cooper and Burnham strike me as cowed New Labourites. They're basically scared of putting forth what they actually believe and end up with that slightly wishy-washy mash of policies which are designed to molify rather than representing sincerely held beliefs.

Kendall, I think, is consistent in putting forth a coherent idea of what she wants to do and what she thinks Labour should be. I just don't like it.
 
PermaBanned said:
If that was the case then why would Kendall say she didn't support recognising Palestine? That's not going to win her any votes. I think she does have principles, but those principles are not very well aligned to the sort of voters Labour appeals to.
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What point are you getting at ? She's the Tory lite candidate under a red rosette that's her thing , out of interest did anyone listen to the debate tonight on LBC between them all ??
 
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I think the Labour party should give Jeremy Corbyn a chance. I'm very doubtful he will be successful, but if the Labour Party is to move forward (and the country to some extent), I think they/we need to give leftwing politics another chance.

There hasn't been a "socialist" option on a ballot paper since 1992, 23 years ago. You could argue that Ed was offering something different, but it wasn't radical enough to be a real alternative. All he was offering was slightly less of the same, which is clearly a terrible tactic.

There is very real evidence that some more radical policy choices have popular appeal, and there's too many people dismissing them out-of-hand, even in the Labour party.

I'd like to see the people given the choice. If it doesn't work, the labour party haven't really lost much. None of the other candidates are electable either.
 
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Stretch said:
There hasn't been a "socialist" option on a ballot paper since 1992, 23 years ago.
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You have to go back a bit further than 1992 to find when Labour stood on a Socialist manifesto. The year was 1983 and the Communist Michael Foot was leader; that manifesto was called the 'Longest Suicide Note in History' by Labour MP Gerald Kaufman. Kaufman was correct too: Labour was shot down by a Tory landslide. The lesson is this: The UK population is sensible enough to reject Socialism. The UK population does not want Socialism, and the sooner Labour's backbench MPs that through their thick heads, the sooner Labour will choose a reasonable leader.
 
I don't even know what the Labour party is anymore, and more worryingly, I don't think Labour do either.

I was rooting for Andy Burnham because I always felt he was an honest guy, less agenda driven, and I think what he did for the Hillsborough campaign was fantastic. It showed that he stood up for people and did what he thought was best. However after the other day, and seeing him desperately trying to be "middle ground man" in interviews and on Question Time, I've lost a tremendous amount of respect for him. He's coming across as another copy-paste career politician who's trying to be something, trying to have conviction. You can't act like you have it, you've either got it or you haven't. You can't just go around moulding yourself into whatever you think people will want.

It's all out Corbyn or nothing now for me personally. I don't want a party that "mimics" Blair's New Labour. How utterly horrific and backward. Either we go full out with Corbyn and be the socialist change that so many people want, or the Labour party will collapse outright and will need to step aside, otherwise it's decaying corpse will only contaminate the Westminster benches.
 
Actually having listened to that debate on LBC there are a lot of things i found myself agreeing with Yvette on, she very well might get my second vote.
 
{T5K}TT said:
You have to go back a bit further than 1992 to find when Labour stood on a Socialist manifesto. The year was 1983 and the Communist Michael Foot was leader; that manifesto was called the 'Longest Suicide Note in History' by Labour MP Gerald Kaufman. Kaufman was correct too: Labour was shot down by a Tory landslide. The lesson is this: The UK population is sensible enough to reject Socialism. The UK population does not want Socialism, and the sooner Labour's backbench MPs that through their thick heads, the sooner Labour will choose a reasonable leader.
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I don't think it's as simplistic as that.

Socialism has to some extent become dirty word, and too many perfectly sensible/reasonable ideals are written off as being socialist without being given fair air time. Wholesale socialism in the UK is unquestionably dead. But when questioned on the specifics of "socialist" policy, many are very much in agreement, even some Tories.

If you asked the people's opinion on the ownership of public utilities and the railways for example, most would agree they should be renationalised.

Most would agree that Tory/New Labour policy on the NHS has edged worryingly to far away from it's founding principles, which people still hold dear.

Most would also agree that we should invest far more in education and infrastructure, reducing tuition fees for example, building housing and improving transportation.

Many also feel that taxes for the very well off should be higher.

The problem is, many of these polices are met with the hysteria of the anti-big-government brigade, and aren't debated rationally, or at all in many cases.

Politics today seems very one dimensional, and it's simply not true that there's only one way forward, albeit, with a bit of window dressing from red or blue.

Personally, I don't agree with some of the above, but I like to see alternative ideas regularly debated, and at the moment the political environment is too stifling.

By far the biggest problem is the FPP system.
 
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eggyoke said:
I don't even know what the Labour party is anymore, and more worryingly, I don't think Labour do either.
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I think it's fine the Labour Party isn't comprised of 230-or-so MPs who are all of the same opinion. You don't exactly say the Tories don't know what they are or want to be when their MPs passionately disagree with each other over really important issues like the EU and immigration.

The problem Labour have is they're rubbish at rallying around a leader. Cameron is on the more moderate side of his party, yet it's rare you see the right of the party kicking up a major fuss.
 
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