Seven dead after Hawker Hunter hits cars

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Scougar said:
It is reported elsewhere that he WAS scheduled to fly as the guy was always going to be on holiday. And anyway, it was only him and the other pilot who flew the hunter, they split the time between them on a regular basis.

danny... I think you need to start reading up a little on the backstory before jumping to conclusions and raging.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34054578

his name is Chris Heames;

btw the aircraft never really pushed `high g` , energetic yes , but to conserve airframe life all vintage aircraft usually only fly around between 1 and 3/4 G anyway.
 
Greebo said:
True but the fact that it would appear that

1. this manoeuvre wasnt part of his program
2. Other display pilots have said they wouldnt try that stunt from that low altitude

makes any kind of mechanical fault during the stunt irrelevant.

Lets put it this way. If a guy on motorbike tried to jump between two roofs and failed and crash on the pedestrians below would it make any difference that it later transpired that he had an engine fault just as he was going up the ramp and he would have made the jump if he hadn't or would you still blame the driver for attempting it in the first place?
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He may have also had an altitude indication issue. Of course, you would assume an experienced pilot would be able to orientate and have the situational awareness to perceive if he was lower than being indicated, but the reality is in mid display and having properly carried out a series of manouveres previously it would seem reasonable for him to assume all was fine with his aircraft and systems.
 
Scougar said:
It is reported elsewhere that he WAS scheduled to fly as the guy was always going to be on holiday. And anyway, it was only him and the other pilot who flew the hunter, they split the time between them on a regular basis.

danny... I think you need to start reading up a little on the backstory before jumping to conclusions and raging.
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I'm neither angry or jumping to conclusions, feel free to tell me how many hours this split shift adds up to per year and how many times they fly. The fact is that goes against just about every thing else required to maintain and hold approvals in aviation.

I just want to know how many Hunter flying hours he get's per year and how much time he get's per year practicing similar maneuvers. I bet it's low enough that I wouldn't be able to maintain my type ratings, so it's kinda odd to me that you can fly a vintage aircraft any way you like, despite the maintenance standards being much lower and the pilot doing so few hours per year. I'm blaming a system that let's that happen, not him.
 
I can see where Danny is coming from.
This is what a Typhoon display pilot has to go through prior to being allowed to do a public display :-
http://www.raf.mod.uk/typhoondisplay/displayinfo/displayworkup.cfm
Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt private pilots have to demonstrate a similar level of competence ?
Perhaps that is what should be addressed, however the investigation may prove other factors contributed.
 
dholdi said:
I can see where Danny is coming from.
This is what a Typhoon display pilot has to go through prior to being allowed to do a public display :-
http://www.raf.mod.uk/typhoondisplay/displayinfo/displayworkup.cfm
Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt private pilots have to demonstrate a similar level of competence ?
Perhaps that is what should be addressed, however the investigation may prove other factors contributed.
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Is that just for the RAF though? If said pilot were to fly his own plane then I'm sure he would only need to fit the CAA or whichever governing bodies criteria?
 
JBuk said:
Is that just for the RAF though?
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Yes, well for Typhoon but I presume other RAF displays have similar criteria.

JBuk said:
If said pilot were to fly his own plane then I'm sure he would only need to fit the CAA or whichever governing bodies criteria?
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That's what I was asking and I tend to agree with you but I don't think its right.
I have been attending airshows for many years, love them and want them to continue.
However I feel the approach taken by the RAF should be applied to all public displays.
If this increases the cost, reduces the number of shows but increases the safety then so be it.
I'm sure no one wants anything like this to happen again.
 
dholdi said:
Yes, well for Typhoon but I presume other RAF displays have similar criteria.



That's what I was asking and I tend to agree with you but I don't think its right.
I have been attending airshows for many years, love them and want them to continue.
However I feel the approach taken by the RAF should be applied to all public displays.
If this increases the cost, reduces the number of shows but increases the safety then so be it.
I'm sure no one wants anything like this to happen again.
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To follow in the Rafs footsteps would be impractical and would not guarantee things would be any safer, how many Red Arrows incidents have there been over the years and they're the best of the best!
 
dannyjo22 said:
I'm neither angry or jumping to conclusions, feel free to tell me how many hours this split shift adds up to per year and how many times they fly. The fact is that goes against just about every thing else required to maintain and hold approvals in aviation.

I just want to know how many Hunter flying hours he get's per year and how much time he get's per year practicing similar maneuvers. I bet it's low enough that I wouldn't be able to maintain my type ratings, so it's kinda odd to me that you can fly a vintage aircraft any way you like, despite the maintenance standards being much lower and the pilot doing so few hours per year. I'm blaming a system that let's that happen, not him.
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I'm not going to do your research for you :p Get involved, follow the official inquiry, possibly more.
 
With certain aircraft components it's also about flight hours rather than simple age. Increase the flight hours and it's likely to have an impact in the amount of airworthy vintage airracft, due to availability of components, added costs etc. Of course, if more hours on type is deemed to be required for safety then that takes priority over keeping them flying. Really nothing is going to be able to be decided long term until the investigation is complete and the cause and contributing factors of the incident are known.
 
JBuk said:
To follow in the Rafs footsteps would be impractical and would not guarantee things would be any safer, how many Red Arrows incidents have there been over the years and they're the best of the best!
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Why would it be impractical ?
Nothing can guarantee safety however a requirement for pilots to demonstrate their display routine and have their competency signed off by a competent assessor prior to public display would be a step in the right direction.
Imho of course.
 
Hawker doing a loop-dee-loop does not equate to death defying Red Arrows stunts! You can't compare if you're going to start talking about how many accidents they've had.
 
dholdi said:
Why would it be impractical ?
Nothing can guarantee safety however a requirement for pilots to demonstrate their display routine and have their competency signed off by a competent assessor prior to public display would be a step in the right direction.
Imho of course.
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CAA Display Pilot Authorisation?
 
dholdi said:
Why would it be impractical ?
Nothing can guarantee safety however a requirement for pilots to demonstrate their display routine and have their competency signed off by a competent assessor prior to public display would be a step in the right direction.
Imho of course.
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I don't know the ins and outs of it all but reading on the CAA website there's a few hoops to jump through to prove you're a competent display pilot and have to get specialist training , license etc

It would be impractical because the RAF has the man power, equipment , skills/training resources and money to put behind its display I doubt any private pilots would be able to match that.

And even with all those extra resources they still have accidents so it doesn't mean they're any safer than any other qualified display pilot
 
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