The EU Migrant Crisis

Status
Not open for further replies.
Last edited:
I'm not saying we're taking them all, I'm saying the ones trying to get into the UK are here because they've heard about the handouts.
 
Princey said:
I think some key words in my post clearly show it's my opinion. It's based on general observations (being close to many ethnic communities) along with family members in the police force.
Click to expand...

I know. I'm just pointing out therefore that when someone challenges you on a generalised statement, then demanding it to be "proved" wrong is pointless.

I am simply saying that I suspect that when the proof is not forthcoming, because it's not really possible given that it's nothing more than your opinion, you would use that failure to somehow back up your statement. That would be erroneous and nothing more than harmful to the debate, so I thought it worth pointing out now.

From my own perspective, based off my own close experience with ethnic communities and migrant workers in my office, your statement is wrong. The argument can't really go any further than that at the moment, because they are both just generalised statements of opinion.
 
Siliconslave said:
in my mind one of the big problems is the use of the word migrant - we are getting it drilled into us by politicians and the media that these people are migrating out of choice, looking for the good life on the scrounge in the uk.

We are somewhat ignoring the fact that a lot of these are people are honestly fleeing for their lives as refugees of war.


RE staying in france - the UN Refugee Agency has france putting up over twice the number of refugees than the uk -252k vs 117k (http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e45bb01.html)
Click to expand...

Indeed I agree fully with your first statement. It’s a shame because some people are genuinely fleeing for their lives which any one would do given the same situations. But I do think there is a lot of ignorance surrounding this by "joe public" because they can't possibly imagine what it would be like.

That said re the UN link, France has area of 674,843 sq.km, the UK has area of 244,820 sq.km. So France is ~2.5(6) ish times bigger. Granted this isn’t the only thing taken into account but landmass is finite and only so many houses/flats can be built within said landmass. It has to accommodate the residents of the country as well as the additional burden of migrants.

Personally I think the EU want to start putting quotas of how many X Y Z member of the EU should taken in then I believe that the EU should also share the burden of cost equally too and that “allowances/benefits” should be the same no matter which member of the EU said migrant settles in.
 
Princey said:
I'm not saying we're taking them all, I'm saying the ones trying to get into the UK are here because they've heard about the handouts.
Click to expand...

some of them maybe, but there are lots of reasons why:
friends / relatives may be here
might be a history of people from their home country coming here (and so having an established communty to help them)
might be from countries which were former British colonies / or had prevoius contact with UK perosnal (like afghan 'terps)
they might speak english (and not say french or italian)
UK is doing well economically (better than others anyway) so might be able to get work?
 
Last edited:
Conscript said:
I know. I'm just pointing out therefore that when someone challenges you on a generalised statement, then demanding it to be "proved" wrong is pointless.

I am simply saying that I suspect that when the proof is not forthcoming, because it's not really possible given that it's nothing more than your opinion, you would use that failure to somehow back up your statement. That would be erroneous and nothing more than harmful to the debate, so I thought it worth pointing out now.

From my own perspective, based off my own close experience with ethnic communities and migrant workers in my office, your statement is wrong. The argument can't really go any further than that at the moment, because they are both just generalised statements of opinion.
Click to expand...

I gave my opinion, I was told it was wrong, I asked to be shown how I was wrong. I am not looking to defend my statement so I won't be looking for evidence to counter it, I would like to be shown how I am wrong however.
 
someone posted a map of the current emigration from Syria.

Basically went sort of like this. Every country on way to germany no war. Turkey, romania, bulgaria, greece etc.

No war.

But they go through all these countries to Germany?

It's not just to get away from war, some of them want in on the gravy train. I mean obviously this may be bit different as Germany offered to help, but lets talk about some of migrants from inside Europe that go through all these other countries that are fine just to get to the UK.

There is a reason for this. Benefits instantly without having to work and an nhs they can use free of charge.

This will come back in the long term and bite the UK in the ass, reference this post in 10 years time. It'll be an I told you so.
 
Last edited:
No free health care here in France for them. You have to pay up front, then the government ran insurance reimburses most of the costs. A tetanus jab cost me nearly 100 euro in total. I can reclaim all but 7 euro of it.
 
Princey said:
So why not just go to the first safe country or one of the 10s of other safe counties? They're trying for the UK for the handouts that they've heard about, probably from family and friends already here.
Click to expand...

In a nutshell, that's it. Then they bring their extended family over and cycle widens. As an island nation we have a finite amount of space and facilities.
 
We should not take any more third world "asylum seekers" or "refugees". They should stop in the first safest country they arrive in. We should provide those countries with financial assistance though.
 
People are within their right to find a safer place for them/their families etc from war-torn countries.

However, there's a big difference between securing a new home and better quality of life and simply taking as much of what you can for free.

The system is open to abuse as made evident by the sheer weight of cases involving people relocating to the EU with absolutely no intention of finding a job and integrating in that area. This gets exacerbated by those people refusing to accept the culture and laws of the country they end up staying in, creating isolated pockets of communities.

We, as the UK are not special when it comes to this problem, but we are a tiny, tiny island.
 
CREATIVE!11 said:
someone posted a map of the current emigration from Syria.

Basically went sort of like this. Every country on way to germany no war. Turkey, romania, bulgaria, greece etc.

No war.

But they go through all these countries to Germany?

It's not just to get away from war, some of them want in on the gravy train. I mean obviously this may be bit different as Germany offered to help, but lets talk about some of migrants from inside Europe that go through all these other countries that are fine just to get to the UK.

There is a reason for this. Benefits instantly without having to work and an nhs they can use free of charge.

This will come back in the long term and bite the UK in the ass, reference this post in 10 years time. It'll be an I told you so.
Click to expand...

Surely it's not surprising that if they are seeking to build a new life for themselves, they would try and do so in the more prosperous economies, or those with the most employment opportunities on offer?

Implying that they can't be genuine refugees because they haven't set up shop in the first non-war torn country they venture through, and that their attempts to reach Germany, the UK, etc are therefore nothing more than an attempt to exploit the benefits systems of such countries is a vast oversimplification. And one that adds nothing but the usual tabloid hysterics to the debate.

It leads to the sort of tripe that the gutter press rolls out on a weekly basis about how all migrants are little more than a swarm of parasites intent of draining our resources dry, and the usual drivel by barbaric dunderheads who seriously think the answer to the problem is mass murder.

They are just human beings who on the whole are just trying to seek a better life and their plight deserves rational consideration, rather than being a debate hijacked by such hysterics.
 
Last edited:
Ricochet J said:
It got me thinking: in the event of a British civil war, if bombs were flying past daily and the risk of death is high then I'd take my loved ones out of this country in heart beat and I'd immigrate somewhere else. Wouldn't you?
Click to expand...

Yes, but once it was all over and peace was restored I would want to return home - as most of us would. Migrants from Africa and the Middle East usually settle and never return home.
 
There really seems to be two objections to the current non-eu immigration crisis.

A) People seem very selective about the country they wish to seek refuge in.
B) A significant number of them are not from conflict zones, or in any imminent danger.

If you could eliminate these two issues, I feel the vast majority of EU citizens would be far more welcoming.

Immigrants should need to bring papers or some proof of origin. The EU should make it clear who they will accept, and everyone else should be turned away.

The asylum system needs to help those it was designed to help, or it's in serious danger of becoming unworkable.
 
Last edited:
Princey said:
I am going to generalise here. They will mostly be coming to the UK for handouts with no intention of working. The usual migrant communities that are already here are usually cesspools of crime.
Click to expand...

Can they actually claim benefits though? According to these links most non-EU nationals who are subject to immigration control are not allowed access to “public funds” (such as jobseekers’ allowance or tax credits).

https://fullfact.org/immigration/welfare_benefits-44747
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds--2/public-funds

Maybe this doesn't apply to the migrants we're talking about, would be go to know if it's relevant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom