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The EU Migrant Crisis

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FoxEye said:
Instead of posting the article (which you will probably say has an anti-immigration bias), I will post the sources cited in the article.

If you google "77.6 percent rape sweden" you will find it has been copied around and reposted everywhere. That in itself does not prove anything, but there is plenty of opportunity for it to be debunked or challenged, and not much of that going on.



Unless you speak Swedish it might be hard to verify.

Apparently (you would probably be able to confirm this) sometime after the 2005 report they stopped recording nationality of offenders, or stopped publishing this data. So more up-to-date reports can never be made. A lot of people are saying this is a deliberate attempt to cover it all up.
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I was after links to primary sources not citations.

Having done a bit of Googling and I found what looks to be the 2005 report that you mention. https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba8...bland_personer_fodda_sverige_och_utlandet.pdf

From reading this through Google Translate, I can say that I'm unsure of the validity of that statistic. What I did find is that all the statistics refer to suspects rather than convictions which could be significant or it could be mistranslation or it could be an intricacy of the Swedish criminal justice system. I wouldn't trust the statistic without further information though.
 
FoxEye said:
Of course, it couldn't be true. Muslims don't operate gangs that groom and rape western girls.

The very thought is ridiculous. Just ask the Rotherham police, they'll tell you the same thing. It's all made up, so no reason to investigate...
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And now you're using other emotive topics to take attention away from the fact that your evidence is shaky. Don't you realise people see through this?
 
Caged said:
So because some Muslim men have raped people before, you feel justified in repeating the 77% figure even though you have no idea where it came from and if it's anywhere close to being accurate?
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No. But when you find articles by Swedish and Danish journalists discussing the rape problem among immigrants, you expect that they probably have a decent handle on the situation.

And when Swedish or Danish people are discussing these statistics and reporting on them on their own websites then it's fair play to link to those, I feel.

Well, unless you say otherwise.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
And now you're using other emotive topics to take attention away from the fact that your evidence is shaky. Don't you realise people see through this?
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You don't understand our frustration.

The other side have their heads firmly in the sand. Refuse to accept *any* chance that the likely outcome of all this muslim immigration is a big problem on the horizon.

Absolute refusal to see what's in front of their eyes.

Multi-culturalism has failed. Is failing all over the country. And now they want more and more of it. And it's about time we stood up and said, "No. This is not the future for Europe that we want."

In before, "Speak for yourself."
 
This is the earliest mention I can find of the figures:

https://affes.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/invandrarna-och-brotten-5-valdtakt/

I'm relying on Google translations but essentially it says "I did a lot of extrapolating based on old data because the figures aren't available" - the margin for error on this one is absolutely astronomical.

It also makes no mention of the religion of the migrants. That hasn't stopped it ending up as "77.6% of all rapes are committed by Muslim males". If you equate wanting to see evidence with ignoring the issue or burying your head in the sand then I really hope you never need to go to court.
 
FoxEye said:
No. But when you find articles by Swedish and Danish journalists discussing the rape problem among immigrants, you expect that they probably have a decent handle on the situation.
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That's like believing everything the Daily Mail comes out with.

FoxEye said:
You don't understand our frustration.

The other side have their heads firmly in the sand. Refuse to accept *any* chance that the likely outcome of all this muslim immigration is a big problem on the horizon.

Absolute refusal to see what's in front of their eyes.

Multi-culturalism has failed. Is failing all over the country. And now they want more and more of it. And it's about time we stood up and said, "No. This is not the future for Europe that we want."

In before, "Speak for yourself."
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I fully except that integration presents problems and challenges and affects different people in different ways.

With that said, I don't share your outlook as you probably expected. I have my own biases and my upbringing and experiences influence that. I see a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds and I've seen integration work well. I know this isn't universal and my experiences have shown that too but unless you see both sides of the coin you don't have the full picture.
 
I'm all for helping people out in need but this is going to get very messy, security in our country could be compromised if they get this wrong.
 
From wiki (uh oh, in before "don't like that evidence or sources either, doesn't agree with me")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden

Immigrants are overrepresented in Sweden's crime statistics. In a study by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention in 1997-2001, 25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences were found to be committed by people born abroad, while almost 20% were committed by Swedish-born people with a foreign background. In the study, immigrants were found to be four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than ethnic Swedes. In addition, immigrants were three times more likely to be investigated for violent assault, and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes. Overall, North Africa and Western Asia were strongly overrepresented in the crime statistics. The report is based on statistics for those "suspected" of offences, but Stina Holmberg of the Council for Crime Prevention said that there was "little difference" in the statistics for those suspected of crimes and those actually convicted. "Slightly under 60 percent of the almost 1,520,000 offences ... registered during the period covered by the study can be attributed to persons who were born in Sweden to two Swedish-born parents," it said.[36]
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So that's 45% of crime committed by foreign born people or people with foreign-born parents.

Of course since wiki is not acceptable, I'll have to find another article to say the same thing, and we'll go on and on this way forever, because no muslim ever committed a crime in the history of mankind.
 
So you're done defending the 77.6% claim then? Onto the next one, ad infinitum, until you've convinced yourself that the position in which you currently find yourself is the fault of multiculturalism or immigration.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
That's like believing everything the Daily Mail comes out with.
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Well yes and no. The DM may not be an accurate representation a lot of the time about specific incidents, but the topics they discuss tend to be the topics of the day.

If you found two Swedish journos dicussing "the immigrant rape problem", then would you automatically conclude you'd simply just found two Swedish Daily Mail journos? Or might you think there could well be a problem in Sweden? I mean, you can find such articles all over the shop.

It's not just in far-right American publications ;) The topic of Swedish immigrant rape is a hot topic.
 
Just read that Merkel is threatening Schengan privileges for countries that are trying to follow the rules and process the migrants. Not that she could just do that anyway.

I find this all odd about a month ago she was saying multiculturalism isn't working and blew that Palestinian girl out on TV, but now it's the opposite.
 
Caged said:
So you're done defending the 77.6% claim then? Onto the next one, ad infinitum, until you've convinced yourself that the position in which you currently find yourself is the fault of multiculturalism or immigration.
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Yeah. I should really only believe the people who say multi-culturalism is a huge success, because there is no other viewpoint that isn't racist. Am I right?

I'm sorry for being such a massive racist. You know I just thought - if I converted to Islam this would be such a non-issue!
 
FoxEye said:
From wiki (uh oh, in before "don't like that evidence or sources either, doesn't agree with me")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden



So that's 45% of crime committed by foreign born people or people with foreign-born parents.

Of course since wiki is not acceptable, I'll have to find another article to say the same thing, and we'll go on and on this way forever, because no muslim ever committed a crime in the history of mankind.
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For reference I don't have an issue with Wiki but it's only as good as the sources it cites. That whole part is cited as coming from http://www.thelocal.se/20051214/2683

I believe this references the report that I linked to earlier. This does give the impression that people not born in Sweden or from parents that aren't Swedish are disproportionately suspected of offences. However, it's hard to evaluate the methodology and therefore trustworthiness of the statistic for the reasons I mentioned in the previous post. It's also 10 years old and that must be taken into account.
 
FoxEye said:
Yeah. I should really only believe the people who say multi-culturalism is a huge success, because there is no other viewpoint that isn't racist. Am I right?

I'm sorry for being such a massive racist. You know I just thought - if I converted to Islam this would be such a non-issue!
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That's exactly what I meant and I'm glad you dealt with it with the maturity that we have come to expect from such an esteemed poster.
 
Billies Bangers said:
Perhaps Germany isn't being quite as altruistic as one first might have imagined.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729

There's always another angle for politicians.
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As I always say.... show me the money.

It's always some crooked douche bag ruining it for someone else to line their pockets. They don't give a toss about the people that will be affected as long as they can cash in.
 
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