The labour Leader thread...

You can't look at that achievement out of context though. There was basically no alternative for two of those three elections. It also happened to coincide with an economic boom which Blair was all to happy to take credit for.



Lots of leaders are despots. Many, like Saddam, were and are kept in power as a result of US and Western diplomacy and support.

The invasion of Iraq was illegal, led to the deaths of million of innocent people and left the Middle East in an even worse state than before. Anyone who still thinks it was a good idea, because it got rid of Saddam, is an idiot.

My word, the lack of real knowledge on this subject is amazing though not unexpected.

I don't see any real evidence that the invasion of Iraq was illegal - I have seen plenty of legal argument for and against, that is all?

The PM took advice from the Attorney General which is what was required, the U.S. did similar. He therefore acted in good faith - beginning and end of.
 
I must admit the new Labour leader has given me the first thing to laugh about with politics in years.

I also reckon it is going to be a gift that keeps on giving in terms of laughter. The shear number of Labour resignations shows what turmoil the party is now in.

Who's resigned from the party over Corbyn? Oh right no one!
 
The real story here is that Labour have betrayed the working people of this country by the ridiculous decision to elect Corbyn as its new leader.

By doing so they have almost guaranteed an unbroken run for the Tories from 2009 to at least 2025. This may also give the Scottish Nationalist more ammunition to push for a further vote on independence.

There is about as much chance of Corbyn being elected as PM of this country as Putin. He will also be 71 by the time of the next election!
 
Hmm! the way I remember it is Gordon Brown with the aid of people like Ed Balls and Ed Milliband spent years briefing against him. I don't remember the electorate forcing him from office at all. You read to many Daily Wail editorials.
Nope, no daily mail here, an unfortunate fall back accusation though based on absolutely no evidence. Also ironic considered the amount of spin that Blair relied on with the help of the press. Spitting the dummy when they eventually change their mind recalls images of spurned lovers not innate enemies.

And no, his popularity dropped when it became clear of the cost of his wars and his misleading of parliament. "Not a bullet fired" was the claim for Afghanistan I seem to remember... Btw before you claim I'm just antiwar, I'm not, I actually served in Afghan.

He may be admired by his own supporters but you have failed to acknowledge the electorate also elected him as our PM three times. Most successful Labour leader ever.
Relevance to how he would do now in a GE? Opinions change. Bush held one of the highest opinion poll positions in American history at one time as well. Could you acknowledge that labours dominance may have been to a weak opposition? (Much like the tories currently)

You have also failed to address the fact that Saddam was a despot and the world was better for having removed him. The mistakes in Iraq was the fact the U.S. only planned for war but failed to plan for peace.
So how wise of a foreign policy move was it to join them in a poorly thought out war and occupation?
So what he was a despot? Blair then went to Libya to make deals with an equally corrupt and cruel man, including the tacit forgiveness (through money stuffed in the mouth) of the murder of British citizens whilst the man tried to knight Assad.
On top of these moves he lied about each and every move to parliament and the public. Do not try and paint him as a moral man.



If you read the brief of the Middle East PE then you would quickly realise why there was never going to be a settlement from that quarter.
Presumably he knew this... So why did he take an impossible job? Hubris or greed, your choice. The PE isn't the only position he took up to which he used to milk ME regimes BTW. Including PR for that beacon of light and reason Khazakstan and damage limitation following a massacre there.

You come across as idealistic but sadly ill informed - sorry.
You come across as delusional and so far attempted to paint me as both loony left and a daily mail reader. Sorry.
 
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Do you say they were better served being exterminated by their own leader - just so we are sure where you're coming from?

I have said in post 1761 the real failure was not in removing Saddam but failing to plan for peace. They have also been badly blown of course by events in other middle eastern countries.

The issue is far more complex than your simplistic view of things.

A straw breaks a camels back.
As you said they went to war with no plan for peace.
no one forsaw isis. They just randomly assumed that a region of earth which has never had a parlimentary democracy would suddenly assume one, in a nation they bombed to pieced, and then dismantled the remaining civil service, police and army.
Blair led the charge, he brough the UK into this. This is what he will be remembered for. It is all history will recall. Removing an evil man opened the door to hell.
The people in Iraq are no better off, they are being murdered by their own leaders now, and their own countrymen, in exactly the same way, but in much greater numbers than under Sadam.
You might see this as simplistic, but it is reality, a living reality of an active abandoned war zone.

Removing Sadam, no matter how evil the man and his actions, has done nothing for the region except generate utter instability, and in the case of Blair, a leader who started it. It is unforgivable.
 
The Tories are scared that's why they are spouting this rubbish, Corbyn will strike up a massive conversation against austerity

The Tories and the media all trying to discredit him before he has even started. It just shows how scared they are of losing. If he is no threat as many brainwashed Tories supporters say then why all this vitriol against him?

The Tories obviously think most people are stupid and will believe all this 'threat to security' BS.
 
Corbyn won because of Tories and hard lefties using the £3 vote option. Most bonafide members (like me) did not vote for him.
 
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