England and Wales smokers, beware!

[Avenged7Fold]

While i do agree with this ban, i disagree with banning smoking everywhere in public.

I feel that a laws punishment should be proportional to its consequences of breaking that law. Banning in public because others think it smells is not an acceptable reason. Why should you enforce a policy that someone is required to pay a fine if they are caught smoking outside because you dont like the smell.

I can understand of enforcing a law with the idea of targeting people who smoke near others for the sake of the health of second hand smokers. banning smoking from entrance ways to any place i can see as acceptable but banning from all public areas including streets is ridiculous. No one FORCES you to stand near every smoker. there are many inconsiderate people out there who smoke near entrances and exits but smoking on the street or on the way to somewhere or in a designated area AWAY from any place a non smoker may be required to be is fine. Passing someone smoking on the street may irritate you but wont be causing you health issues.

If you think smoking should be banned everywhere, then why not ban alcohol everywhere outside of the house? There are plenty of places people can smoke without causing any issue or harm to anyone. If you think you are justified in wanting a ban because it irritates you, then you could just as easily ban a million other things purely because most people are irritated by them. Should we not ban booze due to the vandalism, violence and disturbance caused by the minority of pub goers on the weekend?

 

[Spacedeck]

I just don't see how this is going to be enforceable.
Are they going to stop every driver of a 4x4 that has blacked out rear windows where the driver is smoking? You can't see in to our family car at the back to see if there's a child in there at all.

Probably not going to go out and grab everyone. Most will end up getting away with it. If they did stop someone they notice though and fine them, it would send a message to everyone else that eventually they will be dealt with if they are found in the same situation.

 

[davisdavid]

I agree, but how do you enforce it?

Just make the process as simple as possible, seen smoking with minors in the car by the Police - pulled over and £50 fine, no ifs and buts, no comeback, no right to appeal, no chance of wasting taxpayer money through contestation. Of course this will never happen because the country is pathetic and the Police have no authority and there are far too many tree hugging muppets to appease.

More government over reach! Your home is next and don't think they won't go there. Telescreen needed to monitor parents smoking in their houses.

Second hand smoke is a complete lie. Zero evidence that second hand smoke has any negative effect in a car.

Supertroll.

I see, on average, about 2-3 people all smoking in their car on their commute home from work every day. All of them doing so whilst driving, on their own.

Personally I think smoking whilst driving should be illegal; you can't be any more focused / in control of the vehicle than if you were using your phone..

I smoke on my commute, never once had an incident. The whole phone/smoking distraction is down to the individual, I would much rather have a 25 year old texting in the car behind me instead of a pensioner or elderly person. Of the top of my head there has been well over a dozen deaths on the roads in Wiltshire over the past 4 months and almost everyone of those incidents is reported with the words elderly or pensioner.


If the Govt really wanted to curb smoking they would raise the tax to extremely excessive levels and claim it all went to the NHS. Smoking would decrease dramatically. I wouldn't have an issue with supertax on Tobacco or Alcohol, both of them have no benefits whatsoever. Admittedly I'd be annoyed too but would get over it and carry on with my life.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

You said they would have targets for this law, when I told you they won't, you reply back saying I'm pedantic.

If you didn't mean there would be targets for this new law, then don't say there will be targets for this new law.

Yes because you replied using an example of a conversation that would not happen to demonstrate there are will be mo Police targets for this offence. However that does not change the fact that there are wide spread targets still within the Police forces throughout England and Wales (despite Theresa May's insistence there are not). The BBC did quite a good piece on it earlier this year.

Empirical evidence suggests that there will be targets for this, vicariously if not directly. The other fact remains that every police force in the land has changed their documentation to remove the word target and replace it with a different word that basically means the same (IE priority, challenge, goal, objective etc etc).

Also, how can Police forces be expected to have their relative successes and failures assessed without targets?

Earlier this year Boris was telling the RTPC that he expected them to halve KSI incidents by 2020. Sounds suspiciously like a target to me.

Given the government have introduced this, and given Police forces throughout the UK said they will ignore it, it is also possible (likely?) the government will force the issue to put the Police in 'their place'. We all know how Theresa likes to do that

Do you think they shouldn't enforce seatbelt use?

Not wearing a seatbelt has instant and often fatal consequences in the event of an RTI. Passive smoking in a car does not and the long term health impact of passive smoking on any individual is also dependant on a myriad of other factors such as lifestyle, genetics so on and so forth, none of which have much bearing in the event of an RTI.

Let us also not forget that technically smoking in a vehicle is driving without due care anyway so there are already powers the Police have to pull people over and we didn't need a new law.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Any idea how they'll "prove" someone is smoking?

Drinking: blood levels, breath test
Drugs: saliva, pee test
Smoking: "do you smell like an ashtray" test?

Seriously though, what if someone bins the cigarette as they see the police? Always wondered if a police officer's statement would be enough evidence for a successful conviction. Especially if they could argue they'd had a cigarette 10 mins prior to the car.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Just make the process as simple as possible, seen smoking with minors in the car by the Police - pulled over and £50 fine, no ifs and buts, no comeback, no right to appeal, no chance of wasting taxpayer money through contestation. Of course this will never happen because the country is pathetic and the Police have no authority and there are far too many tree hugging muppets to appease.

OK, and you belive we have the staffing levels within our Police force for that?

This should not be a Police issue. It should be, if anything, a social services issue.

 

[Lytton]

More government over reach! Your home is next and don't think they won't go there. Telescreen needed to monitor parents smoking in their houses.

Second hand smoke is a complete lie. Zero evidence that second hand smoke has any negative effect in a car.

Everything is lacking evidence when you're a keyboard troll. With several years in pathology labs, and countless diseased lungs and medical reports reviewed, coupled with all academic research, there is no doubt in my mind or any other sane human's mind that second hand smoke is nasty business.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Any idea how they'll "prove" someone is smoking?

The same way they prove somebody had no seatbelt on or was fiddling with a phone?

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Personally I think smoking whilst driving should be illegal; you can't be any more focused / in control of the vehicle than if you were using your phone..

Why do you think it requires so much concentration/focus to smoke?

If you are a non smoker i dont think you can make that judgement. If you are a smoker, then i should think you need to book some driving lessons.

 

[Liquidfox]

There needs to be a gradual transition away from it, the Govt. couldn't take the tax hit by doing it all in one go.

Which is where vaping comes in, vast majority of devices are already illegal under the the new Tobacco Products Directive. They'll say they're safe, increase uptake and reduce smokers then tax the crap out of them to bring the funds back in.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Any idea how they'll "prove" someone is smoking?

Drinking: blood levels, breath test
Drugs: saliva, pee test
Smoking: "do you smell like an ashtray" test?

Seriously though, what if someone bins the cigarette as they see the police? Always wondered if a police officer's statement would be enough evidence for a successful conviction. Especially if they could argue they'd had a cigarette 10 mins prior to the car.

Generally a statement with details that the someone was holding a lit cigarette should be enough for a prosecution.

 

[davisdavid]

OK, and you belive we have the staffing levels within our Police force for that?

This should not be a Police issue. It should be, if anything, a social services issue.

That's the point of my post, it's a less time consuming way about it. On the spot fine with no comeback. Even better, all Police vehicles are fitted with VRN camera/technology. Surely there could be a method or some software that allows them to identify the culprit whilst on patrol and have that VRN logged and a fine issued automatically without stepping foot outside of their vehicle.

Yes this would cause the 'I wasn't driving' rubbish but I 100% agree that it shouldn't be a police issue, not because it should be a social service issue but because the police are so alarmingly undermanned.

 

[bakes0310]

Why don't let anyone with a camera take a picture of the smoker, with a clear picture of them doing it along with the number plate. Then just message it across to the local police department. Then a £50 fine in the post, sorted.

 

[Burnsy2023]

OK, and you belive we have the staffing levels within our Police force for that?

This should not be a Police issue. It should be, if anything, a social services issue.

Social services are as abundant as unicorns when you're dealing with urgent jobs let alone something this low level.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Why don't let anyone with a camera take a picture of the smoker, with a clear picture of them doing it along with the number plate. Then just message it across to the local police department. Then a £50 fine in the post, sorted.

I was thinking of something similar with mobile phones to aid enforcement. A pic of someone clear enough to identify the driver, the vehicle and that it's being driven would be plenty enough evidence.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

I was thinking of something similar with mobile phones to aid enforcement. A pic of someone clear enough to identify the driver, the vehicle and that it's being driven would be plenty enough evidence.

But it would also have to clearly show the passengers as well (often sitting in the back) so that you could identify them and ascertain if they were under the age of 18.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Problem is, you'll then encourage drivers to use mobiles to "catch" the criminals

 

[Simon Belmont]

I'm glad I quit 2 years ago. I can breath again

 

[davisdavid]

I agree with the smoking ban in confined spaces but I don't think they will ever ban it on the streets.

I cycle to work every day and take in untold amounts of car exhaust fumes but they are not going to ban cars. I would imagine just walking to work in a city of town would be just as bad for you as taking in smoke from someone else's cigarette.

I doubt there'll ever be a full ban, government only ever thinks about getting back into government. Banning smoking full stop would be one of the single most successful actions in preserving life and improving society no government would ever fully advocate it due to the amount of tax they generate from it.

Though on a side note the last RSM conference earlier this year produced the idea/plan to ban smoking completely on military establishments by 2020 and to ban uniformed soldiers from smoking in public too. I can understand their 'concern' but we have the second highest percentage of smokers against profession after nurses so attempting to enforce that would no doubt result in some Human Rights case being launched against the military.

 

[Burnsy2023]

But it would also have to clearly show the passengers as well (often sitting in the back) so that you could identify them and ascertain if they were under the age of 18.

That is a very relevant point which basically scuppers that plan for smoking...