** Star Wars Episode VII - SPOILERS WITHIN **

[Shamikebab]

Oh, they're not canon any more... How convenient for your argument to throw out everything that went previously.

Since you've read them, how can you even be making the points you're trying to make?

This is more about ego and not being seen to lose an internet argument than actual reason.

Because I understand what canon means

I've actually given canon evidence to back up my points. You've just ignored them and resorted to personal insults. You clearly have no idea how to actually have a discussion

(I've also fixed your spelling too, you're clearly not good at that either )

 

[Uncle Petey]

No, I've pointed you in the direction of what was considered canon before Disney decided to throw it out - which you've conveniently ignored and just invented things to support your argument.

You've also ignored a large portion of what I've said, so don't play that card.

As for my spelling, I have a new keyboard that is an utter pain in the arse, but well done at the attempt at a petty jab to make yourself feel better.

 

[Shamikebab]

You're pointing me to non canon material.

Do you understand what canon means? I hate to keep repeating this but it really doesn't sound like you do

 

[Uncle Petey]

What do you consider canon? Just the movies?

 

[Shamikebab]

The canon is the movies, the rebels tv series, the Clone Wars tv series and any new canon books not written under the Legends continuity.

 

[Skeeter]

How can you use something Disney have said no longer applies to the story Disney are writing as 'evidence' to dispute something in the story Disney are writing?

That's like disputing something in the films based on something written in fan fiction?!

 

[Uncle Petey]

Ok, so nothing in the EU.

In your mind, does that include anything to do with force/skills training and now it's simply a case of just believe?

Since we're going by the movies, what do you think that Snoke meant when he mentioned completing Kylo's training?

 

[Shamikebab]

No idea, we don't know. We don't even know if Snoke is a force user at the moment.

Anything not in the things I listed has nothing to do with this star wars universe any more. They're on the level of fan fiction. I might as well say I wrote a story once and use that as evidence.

 

[Skeeter]

Ok, so nothing in the EU.

In your mind, does that include anything to do with force/skills training and now it's simply a case of just believe?

Since we're going by the movies, what do you think that Snoke meant when he mentioned completing Kylo's training?

"In your mind"??!?

There is no "in your mind", there is canon and not canon. Things are one or the other.

 

[Uncle Petey]

"In your mind"??!?

There is no "in your mind", there is canon and not canon. Things are one or the other.

So all the previous rules regarding force users usually requiring a master/apprentice relationship to teach proper use of their abilites is now non-canon?

If we're talking about certain characters living/dying and other story based aspects of what was previously considered canon, then that's fine. I have no problem with that.

Changing fundamental rules of the SW universe is a little different though.

 

[Shamikebab]

This is like the 'They're all dead Dave' conversation in Red Dwarf

 

[Skeeter]

The rules of the Star Wars canon universe are defined by the information within that universe.

If Disney have changed what is canon, then they have changed that universes rules.

Trying to define the current universe by things that used to be in it but now aren't is a pointless excersize.

Is there anything in the canon universe as it stands now that prevents Rey being able to do what she did, rather than her just being the first to do what she did?

 

[Uncle Petey]

Ok, have it your way.

Using advanced force techniques now requires nothing but the power of... Well, I'd say belief, but doing things like force persuade of the top of her head requires a bit more than that IMO.

It's ok though, everything is now considered non-canon, so we can just make **** up to ease the storytelling process.
Besides, it's for kids, right? It doesn't have to make any sense.

 

[Skeeter]

Ok, have it your way.

Using advanced force techniques now requires nothing but the power of... Well, I'd say belief, but doing things like force persuade of the top of her head requires a bit more than that IMO.

It's ok though, everything is now considered non-canon, so we can just make **** up to ease the storytelling process.
Besides, it's for kids, right? It doesn't have to make any sense.

Removing the butthurt from this, yes, exactly that.

Disney have carved out their own rules for the universe they have paid £4bn for in order to crrate a whole new era of kids entertainment. Like it or not, Disney are not making these films to keep you happy.

But like I said, there's nothing in the universe that prevents Rey doing what she did. She was just the first so far to do it.

 

[easyrider]

Ok, have it your way.

Using advanced force techniques now requires nothing but the power of... Well, I'd say belief, but doing things like force persuade of the top of her head requires a bit more than that IMO.

It's ok though, everything is now considered non-canon, so we can just make **** up to ease the storytelling process.
Besides, it's for kids, right? It doesn't have to make any sense.

And don't forget ...when it suits...

The answer is...nobody really gives a **** as its a movie.

 

[Skeeter]

Oh wow, a new Star Wars themed sig, you really are moving on aren't you!

 

[Deathjester]

Around 10 years prior to the events of TFA. She was left with Unkhar at the age of 6-8. She's around 18-19 in TFA.

JJ confirmed in one of the interviews that in-story timeline between OT and TFA is 38 years. More than enough for Ray to be Luke's granddaughter if needed (yeah, I'm still pushing this theory) ...



Nothing in SW canon can explain her speed of picking up the abilities. Especially not dark side of the force abilities (reverse mind probing/reading).

Not true; If touching Luke's lightsaber caused repressed / sealed memories to return then it could also have reminded he of her force training.

 

[Uncle Petey]

Removing the butthurt from this, yes, exactly that.

Disney have carved out their own rules for the universe they have paid £4bn for in order to crrate a whole new era of kids entertainment. Like it or not, Disney are not making these films to keep you happy.

But like I said, there's nothing in the universe that prevents Rey doing what she did. She was just the first so far to do it.

Butthurt? What victory do you think you've claimed here?
You've got to stop taking things like 'Ok, have it your way' so literally.

Like I said, changing fundamental rules and using the canon excuse is weak.
This is meant to be a continuation of the original trilogy, and that trilogy is considered canon, yes?

If so, then that trilogy was based on rules.

Like I said in an earlier post, displaying raw/basic force abilities without training is not unknown for a talented noob.

Simply trying to do something like force persuade apparently out of the blue is nonsense or just poor storytelling, no matter what they come up with in the next two films to explain it - if they even do.

Yes, she could have had some memory jog of past training with Luke or whoever, but that's pure assumption and if we're going by the logic of 'it wasn't shown in the movie, so it didn't happen or we have no idea', then people can't use that as an explanation.

Alright, enough for me now. I'm a Star Trek man anyway

 

[Mr Men]

Argggh it's like being in a F1 thread with Skeeter arguing his point over and over and over and then over and over.....

 

[Skeeter]

Butthurt? What victory do you think you've claimed here?
You've got to stop taking things like 'Ok, have it your way' so literally.

Like I said, changing fundamental rules and using the canon excuse is weak.
This is meant to be a continuation of the original trilogy, and that trilogy is considered canon, yes?

If so, then that trilogy was based on rules.

Like I said in an earlier post, displaying raw/basic force abilities without training is not unknown for a talented noob.

Simply trying to do something like force persuade apparently out of the blue is nonsense or just poor storytelling, no matter what they come up with in the next two films to explain it - if they even do.

Yes, she could have had some memory jog of past training with Luke or whoever, but that's pure assumption and if we're going by the logic of 'it wasn't shown in the movie, so it didn't happen or we have no idea', then people can't use that as an explanation.

Alright, enough for me now. I'm a Star Trek man anyway

So at the crux of all this, is your issue that you don't like that Disney have removed a lot of content from the canon universe?