** Star Wars Episode VII - SPOILERS WITHIN **
- Thread starter Shamikebab
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Killed/injured more main characters in one film than Vader did in three films. I'd say he was Vader Plus
.But none of it was menacing. I think someone mentioned it before but he came across as a petulant school boy and they even made comedy out of his rages in one instance.Killed/injured more main characters in one film than Vader did in three films. I'd say he was Vader Plus
Really? Killing your own father after he reaches out to help you is more menacing than anything Vader ever did. The fact that he may have baited Hans by pretending to have an internal conflict only adds to that.
Speaking of Vader, his betrayal of the Emperor and apparent return to the light side (at least partially) was about as abrupt as Rey's Force powers in TFA. You're telling me after 20 years with the Dark Side and presumably killing scores of people, he says 'Nope, done with this ****' all because his son refuses to kill him? At least we know we have two more movies that should explain this, RotJ was supposed to be how it ended.
Speaking of Vader, his betrayal of the Emperor and apparent return to the light side (at least partially) was about as abrupt as Rey's Force powers in TFA. You're telling me after 20 years with the Dark Side and presumably killing scores of people, he says 'Nope, done with this ****' all because his son refuses to kill him? At least we know we have two more movies that should explain this, RotJ was supposed to be how it ended.
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I feel that is nostalgia speaking though. If you go back and watch the originals do you still genuinely find Vader menacing?
With Vader you have to see the villain of the 70's. Different time, the straight, broad shoulders, man in black, the child of the 70's/80's head master.
Chances are you experienced that as a child back then. Total figure of authority, discipline, and in most cases fear. Hard to replicate that mindset in the 30,40 somethings now, all we see is a villainous character, and something that's totally lost on the generations today as those traits don't exist in most cases.
Maybe not, but lucas could have well had that in mind.
Chances are you experienced that as a child back then. Total figure of authority, discipline, and in most cases fear. Hard to replicate that mindset in the 30,40 somethings now, all we see is a villainous character, and something that's totally lost on the generations today as those traits don't exist in most cases.
Maybe not, but lucas could have well had that in mind.
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That whole scene of light being drained till it turned to darkness made it blatantly obvious what was going to happen, it was pretty much inevitable which removed any threat or menace from the scene.
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I was 19 in 1977 and I saw Vader as Hitler, his Commanders & Generals as Nazi's, the Stormtroopers as the Waffen SS and I still see it that way.
Vader to me was pure evil but I don't agree they should have shown Rylo's face.
Vader to me was pure evil but I don't agree they should have shown Rylo's face.
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Read some interesting speculation that Snoke (presumed to be a back-from-the dead but physically broken Darth Plageuis) would "complete" Kylo's training by killing him off and 'possesing' his body for his own. This would allow the Kylo actor to play the role of Kylo/Snoke while at the same time making him a 'more credible' villain in the grand scheme of things.
Chewie agreed...
On a serious note...Solos death fell flat in what should have been intensely emotional .
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Wow
I thought you were like 16 or something...
I'm not your age group, I've grown up now.
Vader was ready to dump the Emperor in ESB.
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Hold that thought until we've seen Ep8 and base the argument within Ep4 v Ep7.
Wow, you really have to ask that? I'm honestly surprised you need this explaining to you.
The whole point was that, especially in the first film, we didn't see him too much. He was a deeply ominous presence, he was treated (his mere mention, even) with fear or terror by those around him (exception, GMT), and when he acted it was always with authority, confidence and finality. No self-doubt or second guessing. You just knew he was the epitome of destruction, an angel of death. If you didn't get that after watching the original trilogy then I feel for you, as you missed out on much of the impact.
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Yeah, all about appearance. Vader showed childisch behaviour, too, but he didn't take off the mask. People who don't find someone like Kylo Ren menacing or threatening or wouldn't take him seriously would surely be Darwin Award applicants if they ever met someone like him and let that show.
That he is. He isn't a complete person, yet. He is a rival to Rey, not a benchmark, like Vader was for Luke.
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The novel (based on the script and done with the whole Team Disney input/approval) makes it clear Kylo expects his actions to strengthen him, but it does the opposite. There's also some other bits like him not agreeing with Hux/Snoke in terms of wiping out the system the Resistance base is on (since the Starkiller takes out whole systems rather than individual planets) because they're populated and some of his dialogue painting him a little more grey than black. Interesting to see how much of that ended up on the editing room floor.
That's his argument when he runs out of things to shout about. Apparently I'm a kid because I have a Clio in my sig...
I like that Kylo can personally murder several people including his own father, order the murder of multiple innocent people (beginning scene), be a willing accomplice to the murder of billions & finally torture people but apparently still not be seen as "bad enough" just because he showed his face.
Literally, what else could he have done other than some form of sexual assault to show just how bad/evil/menacing a person he is? Apparently the answer is "keep his helmet on"
My opinion is that they made him just right. Rather than a bland generic "evil" they made him a character, with emotions, vulnerability and human side, you know, like real people have as opposed to a 1 dimensional character.
***EDIT***
PS I forgot this bit (and I may be reading more into it than I should be) - Re: When he kills his Dad - In the build up as Han is talking to him there is still a small sliver of light from the dying Sun which, when it disappears is when Kylo kills Han. I like to think that particular shot was a metaphor for the small sliver of good still in Kylo being forced out by the dark side and when he fully embraces the dark it's then that he decides to kill Han, rather than something he'd already decided to do before hand.
PPS Agreed with this, I felt it lacked something. Maybe it was because the news had already been "spoiled" for me by all the guessing people were doing about who Rey was crying over in the trailer (which I should never have watched) but whatever the reason it didn't have much of an emotional connection for me when he died, it was more like "so it WAS Han then"
Literally, what else could he have done other than some form of sexual assault to show just how bad/evil/menacing a person he is? Apparently the answer is "keep his helmet on"
My opinion is that they made him just right. Rather than a bland generic "evil" they made him a character, with emotions, vulnerability and human side, you know, like real people have as opposed to a 1 dimensional character.
***EDIT***
PS I forgot this bit (and I may be reading more into it than I should be) - Re: When he kills his Dad - In the build up as Han is talking to him there is still a small sliver of light from the dying Sun which, when it disappears is when Kylo kills Han. I like to think that particular shot was a metaphor for the small sliver of good still in Kylo being forced out by the dark side and when he fully embraces the dark it's then that he decides to kill Han, rather than something he'd already decided to do before hand.
PPS Agreed with this, I felt it lacked something. Maybe it was because the news had already been "spoiled" for me by all the guessing people were doing about who Rey was crying over in the trailer (which I should never have watched) but whatever the reason it didn't have much of an emotional connection for me when he died, it was more like "so it WAS Han then"
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