Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[scorza]

Don't forget to register to vote. The deadline for registration is in less than two weeks!

That's for the local elections on May 5th. We still have until June 7th to register for the referendum. Obviously I'd encourage everyone to vote in both elections

 

[Skunkworks]

I still think remain will edge it :/

 

[Tunney]

That's for the local elections on May 5th. We still have until June 7th to register for the referendum. Obviously I'd encourage everyone to vote in both elections

Oops, you're right. Go register anyway.

 

[Roar87]

They are voting on things that dictate the laws of all members and our representation is proportional to our contribution both politically and economically.

That is democracy.

Leaving because you don't get to have enough impact to decide for all other states but for the good of UK, is not.

Yes but our needs aren't the same as people with 1/5th of our countries GDP, our cultures are worlds apart. I don't understand why people like you are so intent on trying to turn us into a federal Europe, like why? What's wrong with us making our laws and other countries doing the same? Do you think there will be another World War or something?

 

[Freakbro]

Ok, this is my only warning before the ban hammer comes out. Stop the petty bickering and insults. If you can't debate this in an adult manner then the thread will be locked.

You seem to be holding us to a higher standard than the 'adults' involved in the campaigning...or in the HoC.....or the Presidential Election!

We don't swear at each other (much) but if someone is posting crap and being an idiot (from either side of the fence) then I don't see the problem in pointing that out.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

That's the problem - it's too big and too complex, no-one understands it. Hence why my charge that it lacks transparency is an accurate one.

Lul no one understands it? just earlier in this page you played a pity card for saying just that.

You can also argue that the lack of detail and known specifics of leaving is just as valid of not more then, over the fear mongering that you have proclaimed so far...

That pot just wont stop calling the kettle names.

You seem to be holding us to a higher standard than the 'adults' involved in the campaigning...or in the HoC.....or the Presidential Election!

Inb4 announcement of other members wives being unfaithful and accusations that some members shouldn't be allowed an opinion because they are not English by blood.

 

[bayo000]

That's the problem - it's too big and too complex, no-one understands it. Hence why my charge that it lacks transparency is an accurate one.

Are you saying you understand domestic politics to the dot? Vast majority of people (me included) don't even understand how their local council works. Now that might be because most councils are useless but that's a different topic

 

[George Hincapie]

The poll is a lot closer now. Unsurprising really.

 

[Skunkworks]

I'm not comparing the leaders I've mentioned with Hitler. I am comparing modern nationalism with 19th century nationalism. I'm doing so because nationalism is a problematic ideology that creates barriers between people, because it convinces the poor, the ignorant or the frustrated that their problems can be fixed by keeping a distance from those who are different.

History has proven otherwise time and again. We should be concentrating on our common goals and ideas, which is what the EU is about, not our differences, which is what Farage, Le Pen, Orban or Putin want.

Nationalism isn't a problem, extreme nationalism is.

Extremes in any direction are bad, including the hard left, of which you are firmly ensconced.

 

[platypus]

That's the problem - it's too big and too complex, no-one understands it. Hence why my charge that it lacks transparency is an accurate one.

It's a charge I agree with, but I would also say that our own political system lacks transparency. How many bills are sent to second readings and committees that operate without being transparent, or worse, accountable? The Hansard is all well and good, but the EU have a similar thing and still it's not transparent.

 

[delta0]

The poll is a lot closer now. Unsurprising really.

The last one finished at 55% in favour of leaving. This one is currently 57.5% leave. Very similar trend so far.

 

[scorza]

Are you saying you understand domestic politics to the dot? Vast majority of people (me included) don't even understand how their local council works. Now that might be because most councils are useless but that's a different topic

I'm saying that British people understand our own political system than they do the EU's.

 

[eldergeek]

Lol. Beware of the tyranny, oppression and assaults on human rights that are now done the.. EU.

Firstly, the main reason why WWI and WWII happened is.. Nationalism. That's what the Germans and the Japanese had, strong, independent, authoritarian governments that put the interest of their nation above everything, including peace.

The Germans went from a failing economy to prospering during Hitler's chancellorship. (I'm not defending his atrocities, by the way - but I had a feeling you might try that trick and so I thought I might clarify) While people are keen to acknowledge his historical failings, I feel it's just as important to acknowledge his rise to power just as much. And are you suggesting putting national interests first is such a bad thing? Really?

Secondly, ask yourself who the modern nationalists are and what they support. Farage, Le Pen, Orban, Putin they all have things in common. They 'love' their country, they shun international cooperation, they put their country first at any cost. If we let these people gain more power we will go back to where we started at the dawn of the 20th century. Only this time, we are capable of causing infinitely greater destruction.

Farage has done no such thing. While I completely accept that there's no way in hades that UKIP could run the country, he's the one person for over a decade that's tirelessly pointed out the corruption and the inadequacies of the EU parliament, how stupid it is that we're devolving more and more power to a central government - and all without giving people a vote on the matter. He's got that. We're voting. I'm completely fine with that. He's also completely correct in pointing out that open borders is a disaster waiting to happen in terms of economy and security.

You, however, appear to be on the side of a bunch of bureaucrats that are by dealing with Turkey, supporting terrorism and risking everyone's lives. Everyone's.

You're position is on the wrong side, the same side against which your grandparents fought.

I find it ironic that you have the audacity to call me a facist, while failing to acknowledge that most of the template for the EU's "ever closer union" is based off of Hitler's vision for the third reich.

 

[Rosbif]

I guess that Greece is just a bit of 'collateral damage' to prevent 'greater destruction'?

Sorry, simply cannot square the words of Zethor against the facts.

 

[Tunney]

I find it ironic that you have the audacity to call me a facist, while failing to acknowledge that most of the template for the EU's "ever closer union" is based off of Hitler's vision for the third reich.

You've literally just written a paragraph praising Hitler's economic plan (which kind of went sour, didn't it?).

Hitler's vision for the third reich was based on Imperialism (particularly British Inperialism). That's almost the exact opposite of the template for the EU.

 

[datalol-jack]

Tbh, guys, the 'big and complex' angle doesn't even get off the ground with the EU.

The whole organisation is a fraction of the size of Whitehall and local government here (whom I'd wager, especially at the local government level, few in this thread fully/better understand or know how to use to their full statutory extent), a rounding-error-fraction of the budget, and many other national member-state administrative bureaucracies dwarf it.

Even at parliamentary level this isn't accurate, especially considering the UK: House of Lords seats 650; House of Commons seats 650, for now; the total is 1300 mandated representatives, half of whom are unelected. Plus the 650 figure for HoL is not fixed -- it can presently balloon beyond that, and did (it's over 800 members now).

The total of MEPs in the EUP is 751, all elected. The other bodies are also laughably small for the important work that they do. Since a) as much as possible is decided, allocated and executed locally, and b) our appointed leaders and ministers play a part in the organisation at the top level, so there's no need to duplicate neither their roles nor the supporting civil services to go with them.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

The Germans went from a failing economy to prospering during Hitler's chancellorship. (I'm not defending his atrocities, by the way - but I had a feeling you might try that trick and so I thought I might clarify) While people are keen to acknowledge his historical failings, I feel it's just as important to acknowledge his rise to power just as much. And are you suggesting putting national interests first is such a bad thing? Really?

Germany prospered for reasons other than nationalism and focusing the working classes hatred on a religious group. That was just how they got into a position of power to implement changes so that they may prosper, so the countries success is not really relevant to the drive and motivation behind putting the NSDAP in power but rather a result in them being in a position of power. Also being in a position where they had absolute power allowed the party to implement radical changes that though did leave their economy in good shape, could not be opposed regardless of whether the changes would have been for the best or not.

A little nationalism would be great right now, it would certainly help the integration issue we're having. It's a shame that people equate having pride in ones country to Hitler etc. Especially in Europe.

People are actually equating extreme nationalism and the condemnation of a specific religious group to gain popular vote to Hitler and his campaigning strategy, which is fair. Certainly fairer than comparing Merkel to hitler

 

[b0redj0rd]

1.82 million illegal migrants entered the EU last year:

http://frontex.europa.eu/assets/Publications/Risk_Analysis/Annula_Risk_Analysis_2016.pdf

The staggering number of EU citizens who joined the conflict as jihadists has resulted in a number of returnees opting to use irregular means of travelling. Islamist extremists will exploit irregular migration flows whenever such movements’ fit their plans.

Safer in Europe?

http://frontex.europa.eu/news/frontex-publishes-risk-analysis-for-2016-NQuBFv

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Yeah safer in Europe. Current asylum seekers wont be eligible for free movement into the UK even if they ended up with an EU passport after claiming permanent residency and will be under no more scrutiny than what they are under now if we left the EU.

Also, illegal immigrants are illegal by nature. making free movement illegal wont help, there is absolutely nothing preventing them from taking a holiday and not getting on the return flight, which is how the vast majority of illegals stay here.

What controls would leaving the EU implement that would actually stop illegals from entering that is not in place already?

 

[phil675]

People are actually equating extreme nationalism and the condemnation of a specific religious group to gain popular vote to Hitler and his campaigning strategy, which is fair. Certainly fairer than comparing Merkel to hitler

No I mean generally speaking, you know when it's the world cup and the papers can't help but print stuff about the English flag being everywhere 'worrying'. In Germany any hint of pride in the German nation is shunned like a hate crime.