Why is the idea that the EU will act in its own best interest to not see the collapse of the entire thing them acting as a petulant child? After all, that's where the metaphor came from.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)
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Why is the idea that the EU will act in its own best interest to not see the collapse of the entire thing them acting as a petulant child? After all, that's where the metaphor came from.
Because the UK already has one of the best deals in the whole union. Expecting to get more just because you're the UK is behaving like a child.
Also expecting the EU to just give you a far better deal than Norway, because we are UK is the exact reason why we won't get one.
Good luck getting a good deal with the new trade agreements when the other party knows you are desperate to get new deals quickly. Really strong starting hand the UK will have in negotiations. Not to mention getting trade deals can take years, in some cases close to a decade.
Short term it will be a disaster.
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lol so these guys spend nothing in the UK they live on fresh air?
Official campaigns announced.
Vote Leave (backed by BoJo and Michael Gove) gets the nod over Grassroots Out (backed by Nigel Farage and George Galloway) and... err... The Trade Union and Socialist Coalition.
Vote Leave (backed by BoJo and Michael Gove) gets the nod over Grassroots Out (backed by Nigel Farage and George Galloway) and... err... The Trade Union and Socialist Coalition.
The sky will not fall if we leave the EU. I am totally confident that on Brexit day +1 everything will continue as normal - there will be very little change in the short term. What you're forgetting is that other countries they want to do trade deals with us - they benefit, we benefit. We just need to get the right people going out into the big wide world to get those deals for us.
Probably good news for the Leave cause. I, like around a third of the eligible voters, generally agree with Farage but it's probably safe to say that they can take our Out votes for granted. It's a small percentage of swing voters who will decide Britain's future and we need, shall we say, a more moderate campaign than GRO to convince them
Not true, outside the EU we will still have all our existing EU negotiated trade deals as the EU negotiates on our behalf and all the member nations then sign up the EU isn't recognised for signing these deals. The question will be if we can extend or improve these deals negotiating alone and what would say India or China want in return?
Which world do you live in? What did Cameron get at the recent negotiation? Pretty much nothing. What makes you think things will change once we are out of the club? Suddenly everyone will be happy in the EU and bend backwards?
Even if they wanted to give us a good deal, they can't. If they do, what is the whole point of the EU project then? The whole thing would fall apart and I don't see the likes of Germany being up for the break up of the union. They will try and do the best they can for the EU to preserve it and in order to achieve that, they cannot give a better deal than Norway....
In fact it would be in their interest to demonstrate that the EU project is the correct one by showing to the world & rest of EU that leaving is a mistake. Giving a bad deal to the UK would do exactly that....
We were well overdue a "scaremongering" post, phew, thanks for fitting one in.
Excellent.
Farage can go back to earning a huge salary off the MEP gravy train and hopefully keep quiet.
Soldato
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Where did I claim they spend "nothing" in the UK?
If I earn £100 and send £20 of it off to Poland and the other £80 in the UK, the UK is £20 worse off than it would be for a British person earning that £100 here and spending it all here.
I work with a number of Eastern Europeans and they all send large quantities of their wages back home. One has built a house there with the cash he's earning here. That is literally wealth transferring out of Britain and into Poland, Hungary and Romania regardless of the fact they spend some of it here.
Nobody is saying that the sky will fall. But this notion of we will get a much better deal is fantasy stuff. We won't, simple as that.
Sure other countries trade with us, but would they exchange losing some of UK business to preserve the safety of the EU?
Risk of the whole Union would be priority number 1 in negotiation for the EU.
Nobody in the EU would give a damn what happens to the UK. So to expect something is complete fantasy stuff.
Soldato
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If we in Britain can recognise this, then the boys across the water would surely also be thinking along the same lines. People can call remainers negative scare mongerers but brexiters can also be called naive, overly positive, wishers.
Which world do you live in? What did Cameron get at the recent negotiation? Pretty much nothing. What makes you think things will change once we are out of the club? Suddenly everyone will be happy in the EU and bend backwards?
Even if they wanted to give us a good deal, they can't. If they do, what is the whole point of the EU project then? The whole thing would fall apart and I don't see the likes of Germany being up for the break up of the union. They will try and do the best they can for the EU to preserve it and in order to achieve that, they cannot give a better deal than Norway....
In fact it would be in their interest to demonstrate that the EU project is the correct one by showing to the world & rest of EU that leaving is a mistake. Giving a bad deal to the UK would do exactly that....
Getting so dull reading it now, rather than produce a viable counter-argument, it's the simple, catch all cop out. I'm afraid your common sense approach will merely be shot down. Pointing out one likely outcome is scaremongering. It's the current buzzword to disparage and belittle anything that doesn't agree with one's agenda.
We just need SJW, cultural marxism and leftie now to call 'lolscorza house'. Oh and a breitbart rss link.
Wrong. Switzerland chooses to abide by certain EU laws but doesn't have to abide by them. It is a sovereign nation. A good example is the Swiss referendum on free movement of people, the Swiss people do not want free movement (and voted against it in a referendum) and so the Swiss are preparing to limit the number of migrants that can enter. The EU want to restrict that (by threatening trade disruption) but the Swiss are still pushing for it to be achieved, as its what their people want. See here. It's another example of how the EU really doesn't care about what its people actually want, it's just chasing its own objectives.
And if your argument is that the institution you want to stay part of would screw us so badly if we left, then what sort of institution is that to stay a part of? It's like not divorcing a wife you hate because you fear she'll take all your money. Yes there may be short term pain, but it's the right thing to do over the longer term.
Short term disruption is likely, yes. Although frankly the referendum in itself has caused a lot of that. The focus shouldn't be on the short term disruption and not acting in our best interests because of that, but whether we want to be tied to a failing EU for the next 40+ years.
So you're saying the EU is so weak that without Britain it would fail? Great argument to want to stay in. We can be the richer, prosperus country that holds everything together as the rest of the EU collapses around us. Again it's just the fear of the EU convincing you. "But they'll totally screw us", "The EU will collapse without us" are weak arguments in my opinion, rather than focussing on the actual key issues over the next 40+ years.
And if we do leave no doubt France, and others, will want their own vote. There's a reason nationalism and anti EU sentiment are on the rise all over the EU.
[TW]Fox;29384516 said:
See my point above re Switzerland. Yes they have to make concessions (although they are trying to change that on immigration), but they also know their worth (rather than being scared of the EU) and are trying to stand up for what's best for their people. Same with Iceland. Same with Norway. The populations in these countries are increasingly against the EU and don't buy the "but we won't have any influence" arguments. Again, I'm yet to see any tangible evidence of how the UK has influenced EU law, all I see are examples of how we have EU law/regulations that we don't want.
On tariffs - I see your argument but don't agree over a 40+ year timeframe. The EU is going backwards economically, it accounts for much less of our trade than it used to and in years to come will account for even less. So that argument gets weaker and weaker over time, and the need for us to be able to trade on our trade deals with the rest of the world becomes even more important. Trade tariffs are in decline globally anyway, so again the economic argument might carry some weight in the next 2/3/4 years, but not over the next 40+ years.
Well if you don't like the word then don't do it.
So I've given my positive vision of the UK outside of the EU. How about those on the stay in side present theirs? It's only a prediction so there's no right or wrong answers here, we can just leave it up to forum members to decide how realistic a prediction is
There are plenty of laws that we do want as well!
You are a dull, uninspiring, broken record.
So I've given my positive vision of the UK outside of the EU. How about those on the stay in side present theirs? It's only a prediction so there's no right or wrong answers here, we can just leave it up to forum members to decide how realistic a prediction is
You've ignored everything everyone's posted that doesn't fit with your agenda up until now, why should anyone bother?
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