shooting in gay club orlando

The proof is in the pudding with gun culture... the US has firearms more readily available that pretty much anywhere else... they have more gun related incidents per head than anywhere else... what could it mean \o/

The fact civvies are permitted to have guns pretty much ensures all criminals are going to have them... meep.
 
Nitefly said:
The proof is in the pudding with gun culture... the US has firearms more readily available that pretty much anywhere else... they have more gun related incidents per head than anywhere else... what could it mean \o/
Click to expand...

Exactly, weather a gun is got by legal or illegal means it's a lot more easy to get a gun in the US.
 
Guns are part of the problem, but the fact guns exist in the first place is why tragedies like this will never stop. What a time to be alive... :(
 
Last edited:
Caged said:
Revenge attacks on what? Random muslims? Mosques? People born in New York?

A revenge attack would be a stupid idea and just compound this tragedy further.
Click to expand...

Whatever a madman would think an easy target.

It would be stupid. No doubt in my mind about that. However there will be a lot of animosity stirred over this. Amazingly media are ignoring the elephant in the room
 
Caged said:
Really not sure either of those documents can be used to back your 3% claim up - it was a sample of 70 and you assume that any gun not from a gun store is therefore illegal.

The second document shows 40% of inmates surveyed obtaining a firearm from an illegal source.
Click to expand...

Also note that the NRA have deliberately prevented any proper analysis of how guns are sourced for crime. They realised the legal gun trade wouldn't come out too well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiahrt_Amendment
 
Zethor said:
The details will start surfacing soon but given his known history and that he was alone I think it is safe to conclude this is not an attack organised by or with the help of ISIS or any other terrorist group. It's probably more of a Breivik style attack.
Click to expand...

But if it turns out he pledged allegiance to IS then he was IS.

Home grown doesn't factor into it from that point onwards.
 
Caged said:
Really not sure either of those documents can be used to back your 3% claim up - it was a sample of 70 and you assume that any gun not from a gun store is therefore illegal.

The second document shows 40% of inmates surveyed obtaining a firearm from an illegal source.
Click to expand...

It's science yo. 11% comes from adding together 'Family or friend' and 'Street/Illegal source'.
 
muon said:
As for your post above, it isn't a ban everything or nothing approach. It's possible to start with something. In fact as I'm sure you are aware they were banned from 1994 to 2004 because they found their way into drugs trade. A ten year manufacturing ban isn't enough time to remove the supply from the market for the discernible effect it is trying to achieve. It should never have lapsed.
Click to expand...

The ban was pointless, it solved nothing. The Mini-14 is practically the same as the AR-15, except it has a more classical look despite being an newer design. As I stated earlier on in the thread, the fixation by the anti-gun groups on the AR-15 is incredibly flawed.

diamount said:
You are being pedantic now. Automatic weapons of any kind should be banned. There is no absolutely use for them outside of combat zones.
Click to expand...

Automatic firearms are restricted, but semi-auto are not as they have legitimate sporting and self defence use.
 
Longbow said:
Automatic firearms are restricted, but semi-auto are not as they have legitimate sporting and self defence use.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure automatic weapons would be useful against a tyrannical government?

After all they would have such weapons.

I thought the strongest reason for allowing so many guns was the second amendment.
 
phil675 said:
It's science yo. 11% comes from adding together 'Family or friend' and 'Street/Illegal source'.
Click to expand...

Adding together family friend and street/illegal doesn't give you a figure for legally owned weapons :confused:

Just a reminder - you were trying to prove that only 3% of gun crime is caused by legally owned weapons.
 
phil675 said:
What are you pointing to there? Fully automatic weapons must be registered with the federal government, it is costly and difficult to be allowed one.
Click to expand...

Except that law isn't even consistent and hasn't been updated in a while. Maybe to keep the NRA lobby happy. The AR-15 requires no permit of any kind in Florida.
 
Caged said:
Adding together family friend and street/illegal doesn't give you a figure for legally owned weapons :confused:

Just a reminder - you were trying to prove that only 3% of gun crime is caused by legally owned weapons.
Click to expand...

I provided a source for the study that found 3% although you really should be doing this yourself if you want to refute me.

The other article is 2 other studies at different times, showing that in 2004 11.3% of firearms were legally purchased to commit a crime:
gun_stats.png


Obviously neither is going to be 100% correct but if you have anything to counter it please bring it in.
 
diamount said:
Except that law isn't even consistent and hasn't been updated in a while. Maybe to keep the NRA lobby happy. The AR-15 requires no permit of any kind in Florida.
Click to expand...

No you see that's because it's for defense and isn't technically an assault rifle, furthermore...


Just admit you like guns and you don't want to give them up. There is no defence argument that applies to some of these weapons, and the need to overthrow the government angle is ridiculous as well.
 
Dis86 said:
Can't believe the death toll.
Click to expand...

Indeed.
Usually in these mass shooting there are hundreds of bullets fired and few dead.
This is very different, if he was just carrying a single rifle and a handgun, he must have had very effective ammo management, been very clam about taking his time to aim, or the place must have been absolutely packed with very few exits, and awful choke points.

No doubt we will find out over the coming days.
 
phil675 said:
I provided a source for the study that found 3% although you really should be doing this yourself if you want to refute me.

The other article is 2 other studies at different times, showing that in 2004 11.3% of firearms were legally purchased to commit a crime:
gun_stats.png


Obviously neither is going to be 100% correct but if you have anything to counter it please bring it in.
Click to expand...

The figures don't show what you think they do, so they are doing the refuting for me.

3% of surveyed inmates with a sample size of 70 weapons buying their guns from a gun shop doesn't mean 97% were illegally sourced.

The table you posted above is quite clear that 40% are illegally sourced.

The opposite of gun shop bought isn't illegal.
 
phil675 said:
And why do you think that is? Perhaps because it is not fully automatic. Please don't waste my time with this.
Click to expand...

Please don't waste your time with 50 dead while you argue some point that frankly those grieving won't give a toss about.
I'd love a pro and anti gun thread and all talk of pro and anti guns to move to there.
People becoming upset because someone doesn't agree with their gun stance while 50 bodies lie dead on the ground.
Madness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom