What were the advantages in being in the EU?

thenewoc · 27 Jun 2016 at 08:54

I don't see any, hence forth my wishes to leave. Once all these other weak countries were allowed to join then the end had already begun. We don't know as yet whether any other countries will hold referendums or whether the current situation is just the beginning of the EU unravelling.

toshj · 27 Jun 2016 at 09:06

thenewoc said:
I don't see any, hence forth my wishes to leave. Once all these other weak countries were allowed to join then the end had already begun. We don't know as yet whether any other countries will hold referendums or whether the current situation is just the beginning of the EU unravelling.

Spain just had a big swing to remain in the EU - their Eurosceptic party just lost a million votes in the election results announced today, perhaps an immediate and direct reaction after seeing what an EU exit actually looks like on all fronts (not just the Take Back Our Country front).

thenewoc · 27 Jun 2016 at 09:30

toshj said:
Spain just had a big swing to remain in the EU - their Eurosceptic party just lost a million votes in the election results announced today, perhaps an immediate and direct reaction after seeing what an EU exit actually looks like on all fronts (not just the Take Back Our Country front).

They haven't seen anything yet as we haven't drafted the exit deal proposal for EU approval after triggering art.50. We also haven't seen a timetable for Turkey's ascension to the EU or anyone else for that matter. We also don't know whether any banks in Italy, Spain, Portugal or Greece will wobble. It's an unfolding situation which won't start to settle until a brexit successor to DC is appointed.

joeyjojo · 27 Jun 2016 at 09:37

Serious answer to the thread title: "passporting" in the finance industry.

Financial services employ 4% of the total workforce, are responsible for £116 bn/year to the economy (about 7% of GDP), and generate over 10% of the government tax receipts. Passporting lets bankers in London operate in markets throughout the EU.

As we're leaving the EU a big chunk of this industry will move to Dublin, Frankfurt, France, Hong Kong...

toshj · 27 Jun 2016 at 09:37

thenewoc said:
They haven't seen anything yet as we haven't drafted the exit deal proposal for EU approval after triggering art.50. We also haven't seen a timetable for Turkey's ascension to the EU or anyone else for that matter. We also don't know whether any banks in Italy, Spain, Portugal or Greece will wobble. It's an unfolding situation which won't start to settle until a brexit successor to DC is appointed.

Of course, it's going to take a while and many things will develop in time. However if the immediate reaction of a country with a recently burgeoning eurosceptic attitude is to turn their back on that party, then it's not a wholly irrelevant indication. Personal opinion here, no foundation at all, but I'd be incredibly surprised if Turkey is part of the EU in the next 20 years. I realise that certain countries have been rushed into joining the union, but I really think Turkey is regarded as too much of liability in its present form.

davewhite04 · 27 Jun 2016 at 17:20

joeyjojo said:
Serious answer to the thread title: "passporting" in the finance industry.

Financial services employ 4% of the total workforce, are responsible for £116 bn/year to the economy (about 7% of GDP), and generate over 10% of the government tax receipts. Passporting lets bankers in London operate in markets throughout the EU.

As we're leaving the EU a big chunk of this industry will move to Dublin, Frankfurt, France, Hong Kong...

I'm sure if Hong Kong can provide that service then we can continue to. We have not discussed the leave terms with the EU yet, so I think it is premature to say that this service will cease to exist.

Nice having another serious question.

davewhite04 · 27 Jun 2016 at 17:32

Angilion said:
The question that comes to my mind is "What's the plan after leaving the EU?". It worries me that there's no sign that those who campaigned for leaving the EU have an answer or have even thought of the question, as if leaving the EU is the end point. We're not going to have hyper-advanced aliens turn up and make the UK into the land of milk and honey because we left the EU. We need a plan.

We have the fantastic civil service working on this as we speak. The truth is the majority of the Government were just about 100% certain we would vote remain, including the Prime Minister. Orders to the civil service to work out plans etc. have to come from him, therefore we got a certain amount of time to flesh out the deal the UK want before we trigger article 50.

I can't say it will be easy if you're poor, but I am very optimistic that we will get a good deal from the EU(despite some hateful words that the media has chose to run with).

My advice is to not buy a newspaper, don't watch the news but if you want to stay informed record or watch the Prime Ministers speeches, he is a shining light in this complex time we are in.

Find out what happens in the EU meeting tomorrow, as it should give more clarity.

davewhite04 · 27 Jun 2016 at 17:35

Evangelion said:
This is demonstrably false.

I think when he/she said "We" they meant as individuals. They are correct.

TheVoice · 27 Jun 2016 at 17:35

davewhite04 said:
My advice is to not buy a newspaper, don't watch the news but if you want to stay informed record or watch the Prime Ministers speeches, he is a shining light in this complex time we are in.

He's a lying ****e more like.

Caged · 27 Jun 2016 at 17:36

thenewoc said:
I don't see any, hence forth my wishes to leave. Once all these other weak countries were allowed to join then the end had already begun. We don't know as yet whether any other countries will hold referendums or whether the current situation is just the beginning of the EU unravelling.

I would happily put money on no other EU countries voluntarily leaving.

davewhite04 · 27 Jun 2016 at 17:44

Fens said:
I am not sure if it has been mentioned but being in the EU is of great benefit to the scientific and medical research community. We have some of the top researchers in the world based here receiving billions of pounds worth of EU research grants. What happens when we lose that funding? Do you think the government will step in to plug those huge funding gaps, and if so where are they supposed to find the money?

There are also huge question marks over the potential legal and regulatory implications. I work in cancer research and I am currently working on a cancer drug trial that is run in both Germany and the UK. A collaborative project such as this is only possible because of existing EU clinical trials directives and agreements and ease of movement for our research staff. This decision therefore has huge implications for the future of our research.

You don't have to take my word for it though, the entire higher education, research, medical and pharma sectors have already made it very clear that they were for remain.

Yes this is a very important area as we do get some funding from the EU for this, and we will continue to until we leave the EU.

Considering we have leading edge research facilities, and more importantly some of the brightest researchers in the world, I'm confident that this area of the deal will be high priority both in our leave negotiations and high on our new governments agenda.

lude1962 · 27 Jun 2016 at 17:56

Raymond Lin said:
Honestly, the best economical outcome right now is back to what we were last week.

Then what is the point of all this? Is giving the big man the finger really worth people's livelihood over? That's what I don't get.

If the EEC had just stuck to being a trading partnership instead of becoming the 'BIG MAN' (read EU gravy train trying to create a Euro centric superstate ruled by jobsworths ) there wouldn't have been the need for a vote in the first place.

dowie · 27 Jun 2016 at 18:05

Kreeeee said:
Because that's the law, based on Switzerland's agreements with the EU.

The UK will have agree to similar terms if we want to trade freely with the EU.

erm what? I think you're a bit confused... under what law?

Switzerland has freedom of movement

Kreeeee · 27 Jun 2016 at 20:27

dowie · 27 Jun 2016 at 20:46

Kreeeee said:
I'm am 100% certain. If you speak fluent German (included the associated technical legal terms) you can look it up.

When a company is hiring in Switzerland and they want to hire someone outside of Switzerland or the EU, they have to prove no one else is available and capable of doing the role in those regions first.

Once the UK leaves the EU then we become third tier employees too.

we're talking about the relationship between Switzerland and the EU... what does the immigration requirement for nonEU people moving to Switzerland have to do with any of this?

Kreeeee · 27 Jun 2016 at 23:26

dowie · 27 Jun 2016 at 23:30

so you're assuming we're going to completely eliminate freedom of movement - the complete opposite of what the EU wants? how exactly are we going to do that if we want any form of trade deal? The default position from no negotiation would be that we're stuck with freedom of movement and an EEA agreement that will cost us... the sort of deal we'd probably be aiming for would involve some concessions towards being able to limit freedom of movement.

I'm really not seeing the case for completely eliminating it - unless you think we'll have no form of trade deal at all with the EU? Something which neither side would want at the moment.

Rosbif · 27 Jun 2016 at 23:41

joeyjojo said:
Serious answer to the thread title: "passporting" in the finance industry.

Financial services employ 4% of the total workforce, are responsible for £116 bn/year to the economy (about 7% of GDP), and generate over 10% of the government tax receipts. Passporting lets bankers in London operate in markets throughout the EU.

As we're leaving the EU a big chunk of this industry will move to Dublin, Frankfurt, France, Hong Kong...

I like how you're using these figures to imply that all economic activity under the umbrella of 'financial services' is trade between the UK and EU. Its not.

Bickaxe · 28 Jun 2016 at 02:13

One of the advantages was that we are a driving force in standards for safety at sea. We have influenced European shipping law quite heavily. When we leave, we lose that influence but still have to comply with it.

You know how we are an island and the majority of our trade comes over via ships? These ships are registered to countries, we call them flag states. Now, if there is a decline in the amount of tonnage registered to a flag state, it has a knock on effect on any industry connected to it as well as an economic impact.

Did you know we could have received fines for not meeting inspection targets? These run into £hundreds of thousands each time. But we are very influential and have a lot of tonnage so Europe never fined us (and they can back date this over a decade). And soon that will change.
And those inspection targets not met? There are not enough staff in those areas to actually meet them as the requirements to do the job are very strict. And recruitment is up to the DoT, not the EU.
I can't quote sources because I'm not allowed but what do you think will happen if we lose half the tonnage registered to the UK? And what if we lose two thirds? Anyone in the industry should rightly be very worried.

Yes, the ships will come in, but it will be expensive for the country.

Knowing some of the figures, the EU has been very good to us in this regard.

{T5K}TT · 28 Jun 2016 at 07:32

Evangelion said:
We are a family of four, and our British passports will be almost worthless without free movement throughout the Schengen Area.

How does that work? How do your passports become 'almost worthless?' If the UK leaves the EU, the Schengen area remains in place. The UK was never a member of the Schengen area in the first place and it remains unchanged if the UK leaves the EU. Please could you precisely explain your point.