The next Conservative Leader thread.

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MrBukey said:
And that right there is the "Great British Swindle". To be considered able to be Prime Minister you have to "look" Prime Ministerial. Forget politics. Forget policies. Forget substance and what you believe in. You have to look Prime Ministerial.

What does Prime Ministerial look like? Suave. At least a bit pompous. Rich. Able to lie through your teeth without laughing or sweating. Have the media champion you (which means you probably show them some favouritism and probably right-leaning but certainly no more left than a centrist politician).

The look should be unimportant. It should be about the substance, policies and politics?
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Good post. Also if the opposition & someone from your own party who hates you says you're unelectable enough times then it becomes fact?
 
BDEE said:
Because all those polls are so accurate of late....
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The General Election polls were within 3% of the real values. You need them to be about 20% out for the fantasy of Labour not coming first or second to occur.
 
BDEE said:
Because all those polls are so accurate of late....


Labour is in a mess. I live in Labour heartland - Even life long labour voters up here are starting to finally dis-engage with them.

They would not stand a chance right now. And rightly so.
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I've seen this in a few places too. However, there needs to be a credible party for them to jump too. Right now there isn't.

The Tories could pick up some with the right plan and leader, UKIP could pick up the leave camp if they get their act together and start looking more professional (they're not right now), the left wing voters are likely to stick it out or go green.

Unless things change fairly rapidly, labour are on the decline, but it will take quite some time for them to lose seats in their heartlands.
 
The Mad Rapper said:
Generated by the same companies that predicted another coalition Government at the last GE? The same ones that cited a Remain win?

Well they're credible.
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All the polls have a margin of error. Most of the final polling with within a margin of error including the end result, so yes, they are credible.
 
wordy said:
Good post. Also if the opposition & someone from your own party who hates you says you're unelectable enough times then it becomes fact?
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Indeed. Here's the rub though: people are fed up with "same old, same old" politics and politicians. The media, the Conservatives and the ToryLite Labour politicians all forget that.

LibDems almost got it, or appeared to get it, but then got stung by Cameron's manipulations - and actually turned out to show that they were really more of the same.

Corbyn seems to be offering something very different. He's withstood the media's worst attempts to derail him. He's had their bile, and although many don't like him he still holds up very well for many more (unlike Brown did after political assassination by media).

People have been turned off by all politicians offering the same things. This has suited a lot of politicians - it creates political apathy, so they have a smaller electorate to worry about appealing to (you don't have to worry about people that can't be bothered to vote). No matter what they claim about going after disenfranchised voters, most couldn't give a flying fig.

Instead of trying to appeal to the small section of society that the cookie-cutter politicians are all fighting over, Corbyn appears to be trying to get those that do feel disaffected and disenfranchised. It's a clever move, and one I think would be rewarded at the ballot box.

I say that - but with a caveat. It would be true if he had the PLP party behind him and candidates that support his cause, then I think he would actually do well at the polls. It might be fairly taboo in the right-leaning media, but he has got a lot of support from ordinary people because he does offer something different to the "all the same so my votes don't count" crowd. Even without those things, I think he'd be rewarded at the ballot box. Enough to win? Probably not a majority. Enough to stop a Conservative majority? I'd hope so, but then again we've just voted for Brexit....
 
MrBukey said:
And that right there is the "Great British Swindle". To be considered able to be Prime Minister you have to "look" Prime Ministerial. Forget politics. Forget policies. Forget substance and what you believe in. You have to look Prime Ministerial.

What does Prime Ministerial look like? Suave. At least a bit pompous. Rich. Able to lie through your teeth without laughing or sweating. Have the media champion you (which means you probably show them some favouritism and probably right-leaning but certainly no more left than a centrist politician).

The look should be unimportant. It should be about the substance, policies and politics?
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In that case Corbyn is out on all fronts. :D
 
Usually I'd take every opportunity to ridicule the Labour Party and it's supporters, but acknowledging the old saying that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, I am just going to look at my feet and whistle quietly.
 
MrBukey said:
Indeed. Here's the rub though: people are fed up with "same old, same old" politics and politicians. The media, the Conservatives and the ToryLite Labour politicians all forget that.

LibDems almost got it, or appeared to get it, but then got stung by Cameron's manipulations - and actually turned out to show that they were really more of the same.

Corbyn seems to be offering something very different. He's withstood the media's worst attempts to derail him. He's had their bile, and although many don't like him he still holds up very well for many more (unlike Brown did after political assassination by media).

People have been turned off by all politicians offering the same things. This has suited a lot of politicians - it creates political apathy, so they have a smaller electorate to worry about appealing to (you don't have to worry about people that can't be bothered to vote). No matter what they claim about going after disenfranchised voters, most couldn't give a flying fig.

Instead of trying to appeal to the small section of society that the cookie-cutter politicians are all fighting over, Corbyn appears to be trying to get those that do feel disaffected and disenfranchised. It's a clever move, and one I think would be rewarded at the ballot box.

I say that - but with a caveat. It would be true if he had the PLP party behind him and candidates that support his cause, then I think he would actually do well at the polls. It might be fairly taboo in the right-leaning media, but he has got a lot of support from ordinary people because he does offer something different to the "all the same so my votes don't count" crowd. Even without those things, I think he'd be rewarded at the ballot box. Enough to win? Probably not a majority. Enough to stop a Conservative majority? I'd hope so, but then again we've just voted for Brexit....
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Don't look now but your alarm will go off in a minute and you will wake up from this nightmare.

Jeremy Corbyn has about as much chance of getting elected as Pol Pot/Saloth Sar had of receiving the Noble Prize for Peace.

Last heard of he was being held captive by the Momentum barmy army. This current Labour farce reminds me of a script from Citizen Smith. Lansman would rather see Labour split apart then let Corbyn resign. They couldn't care less about condemning working people to decades more Tory rule so long as their ideals aren't sullied.
 
Both the Conservatives and Labour probably do need to split though: both are made up of two clear groups of people that can't or won't compromise. Together they appeal to four completely different groups of voters, who are fed up of being burned by politicians who self-serve.

Neither party will split if they can help it though, because if one does then the other will get its act together as they will feel able to win a General Election if they do so.

If we had PR then both parties would likely split, and it would almost certainly guarantee a "proper" coalition government of multiple parties every time. This would ironically force the hand of politicians to actually work together and concentrate on their most important policies - as that's all their would be time or willing for.

If you think Corbyn has little chance of being elected, then maybe your underestimating what he's doing? He is appealing to those other politicians are ignoring. When the current government only got 25% of the electoral vote, it puts things into perspective?
 
Bring back the Lib Dems, or at least someone in the centre ground.

Hilary Benn to spearhead a right bloody sensible party right down the middle
 
MrBukey said:
Both the Conservatives and Labour probably do need to split though: both are made up of two clear groups of people that can't or won't compromise. Together they appeal to four completely different groups of voters, who are fed up of being burned by politicians who self-serve.

Neither party will split if they can help it though, because if one does then the other will get its act together as they will feel able to win a General Election if they do so.

If we had PR then both parties would likely split, and it would almost certainly guarantee a "proper" coalition government of multiple parties every time. This would ironically force the hand of politicians to actually work together and concentrate on their most important policies - as that's all their would be time or willing for.

If you think Corbyn has little chance of being elected, then maybe your underestimating what he's doing? He is appealing to those other politicians are ignoring. When the current government only got 25% of the electoral vote, it puts things into perspective?
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I have followed the fortunes of the Labour party good or bad for decades and I can tell you now the Labour movement is in an even worse state now than it was in the Derek Hatton era.

Corbyn appeals to left wing idealists, students and the like who represent a minuscule percentage of the electorate. Lansman has effectively hijacked Labour and made it unelectable.

PR stands for inertia, that's not going to happen any time soon. No, I'm afraid until we get another Tony Blair then Labour is a spent force in British politics.

What we really need is for politicians to spell out exactly the number of jobs likely to go as a result of Brexit, the financial implications (including mortgages and pensions) for every man women and child in the land and then propose a second vote and see if this time the cerebrally challenged electorate can get it right.
 
Gove can go shag himself.

Worst person to ever ruin the education system. and now he thinks he can just do the same to the country?

wow
 
Diagro said:
Gove can go shag himself.

Worst person to ever ruin the education system. and now he thinks he can just do the same to the country?

wow
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In the recent interview he does actually hold his hand up and say he made some mistakes with what he was trying to do with the education system to be fair, which is kind of rare in politics - most try to spin it rather than take on ownership of a failure, though whether he really learnt from it/will make any difference in the future or just talk/PR speak who knows.
 
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{T5K}TT said:
So Gove decided to go it alone, but I wonder why Johnson did not just stand regardless?
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He was probably planning for a close defeat and to be labelled as a martyr hat fights for the people for a future election, while labelling his opposition as the big bad undemocratic establishment.
 
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