The next Labour leader thread
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Associate
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In the real world everyone just went to work and got on with it
in what sense is politics not the real world?
Who exercises political power is a core part of the real world. Every aspect of our lives is in some way impacted by politics and the decisions made by government. What happens in politics to quite a large extent determines if you even have a job to go to, how you get to your place of work, the terms and conditions you work under, how much your pay packet is worth both taxes and the economic spending power it has. That is just a few things off the top of my head.
Politics shapes pretty much every aspect of our modern life and influences our culture, outlook and societal attitudes. It is a crucial part of our lives.
I meant people weren't running around screaming on Friday morning, which is the impression one might have got from social media.
Associate
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A lot of people, me included, were in tears and deeply concerned but no not running around screaming.
Did you notice the 40,000 odd people who protested today in London? When has the leave campaign been able to turn out a protest anything like that size?
Lots of people are very deeply concerned by this and it is very important, the fact they didn't run up and down the street screaming and instead went to work does not mean they were not and are not deeply worried and upset by the idiotic result.
That still doesn't explain the reference to the 'real world' what is not of the real world in your mind? Aside from the obvious like Santa, Jesus and God!
Are you on crack or what? I'm saying that reactions on social media weren't reflected with hysterical 'the world has ended' reactions, it was like any other day.
Shouting loud and demanding change is not democracy. Especially when you are protesting the result of a lost referendum.
I voted remain, we were in the minority. Subjective moral superiority complexes do not give us the right to override the views of those who outvoted us.
What we can do though is work to get the most satisfying settlement for most of the country. This means working with both those who voted the same as us and those who didn't, establishing common ground and using that as the basis for a settlement discussion with the eu.
There is common ground on the single market for example, and a surprising amount of common ground on freedom of movement for employment and so on.
The risk is the vocal and disruptive remainers are going to get the stay view shut out of the discussions due to their attitude and attacks.
Would that be the worst thing that could happen though?
Have a Labour Party who are hard left if that's what they actually want then have a "socialist" party (or another name, just chucking something in there) who are centre/centre left more in line with Blairite ideas.
The biggest "worry" I hear about this so far is that it would make Labour harder to elect but let's face it they are a shambles these days anyway
Soldato
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Looks like we might have another bottler on our hands. How's Watson doing in his talks with the Unions? I'm not sure what sort of bid you could launch without them. Will Jezza have to seek a nomination? It's all very cloak and dagger.
Utterly unimpressed with this farce. The plotters look to have failed, all they've achieved is to let the Tories off the hook in a time of chaos, making the Labour party look bad, and neutering our front bench. They've probably even made it harder to remove Corbyn now.
You were in tears? Really.. Lol
40,000? The leave campaign was 17,000,000 when did remain manage to organize anything like that size?
Idiotic result? Nice to know you have utter contempt for democracy.
Are you in favor of a 170 member purge jack? At this point I would be. Their positions are now untenable
The problem with this purge idea is that some of those MP's are in marginal seats, some people are prepared to risk losing them.
Quite odd.
Possibly however, all parties are facing backlash.
The big 3 parties are:
Labour = are mostly made up of anti labour MPs plus a mix of leavers and Brexiters
Tories = have a very hostile backdrop of benefit culls and a mix of leave and remain
UKIP = will be turned off by any/all remainers
We then have:
Lib Dems = while not truly forgiven for the last coalition they are platforming they ought to be known as the Lib Undemocrats as they are going to overthrow the majority of the electorate
They will be the dark horse. We will see how short these students memories are however as they are now voting for a party that justified a criminal rise in university fees.
Man of Honour
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Democracy isn't a good way of making reasoned and evidence based decisions, indeed it's particularly poor for this, but it is effective in making sure that the decisions that are taken have support from the public, which is also important.
Democracy isn't this golden concept that is perfect, it has flaws like any other system.
Soldato
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Nigel's free if Labour want a leader that's campaigned on issues that actually affect grassroots Labour supporters.
It might come a surprise to you but the side that wins doesn't have to protest.
No, I wouldn't be. There might be a case for a smaller range of de-selections but I don't believe a 170 member purge would either be just or good for the Labour party. Parties have to be, at least to some extent, broad churches because there is not space in British politics for the number of parties required for narrow churches.
But it is the will of the electorate. It doesn't matter what intelligence comes into it. North Korea is a case in point.
It is, but when you have MPs resigning from cabinets in a flurry plus mass no confidence in a leader is not good.
I do think a lot of MPs who are behaving deplorably toward Corbyn must be sacked. My MP is of course numbered among them. There are or will be plenty of people willing to back Corbyn to take their place and take the party and maybe if successful the country forwards