The next Labour leader thread
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Sorry not clued up on this particular aspect but I thought GPs had control over local NHS budgets? Isn't that what Cameron always advocated and got through???
Soldato
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Well, it's more to do with the long term costs of endless top down reorganisations. Good to see that a key theme of Corbyn's policy seems to be decentralisation - National Investment Banks, National Education Service etc. Placing industries largely out of reach of the grubby fingers of the government of the day and into the control of people with actual experience working at the ground level.
![[TFU] Thegoon84](/styles/overclockers/avatars/6.png){kind=avatar}
Soldato
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Of course not, plan was always to run and degrade the NHS to open it up to private investors.... Evidence is the privatization for a large proportion of other public sector services.... Its like the people of the UK are just happy for their tory majority goverment to sell assets and services to the highest bidder, milk subsidies and give them to share holders (case in point national rail way).... Speak out against it you're a leftie commy *******....
Lets be fair tho, if the argument is an "unelectable leader" why didn't this happen under Ed, it was pretty obvious to anyone with a brain he would never win, people on the street (labour voters) even said "i dont see you as a leader"... PLP did Nothing.....
I work as a Social housing officer, honestly guys, you might sit there in your high castles sayings whats right or wrong, but you're clueless.... The struggle is real.... Social care, mental health services, child services, public services, Elderly care, Disabled care.... All are failing, people are dying! You have to see it, You have to stop and look... For the sake of your country! I'l be ok, maybe not get a pay rise for 10 years, but my "struggle" is nothing in comparison to what families deal with... Just saddens me, we've become completely detached to the bottom 40%. Families being starved for 6 weeks while they wait for their universal credit to come through, what do they get offered a "crisis loan" (which is a loan of money they're entitled to and is rightfully their's) at a large repayment rate.... Your response "Should get a job then". Let me tell you 9 out of 10 times they've been on zero hour contract/employers who dont pay them, knowing they wont do anything about it or report it... AGRRRRR .... Anyways,.
This is a complete overhaul re-do of Labour, **** or bust... I for one am happy to see them burn atm if it means out of the fire something new and solid will come out!
We need really change in this country, Scotland is SNP, The council estates have turned on Labour and vote for an extreme version of the tory party thinking they'll actually help them (UKIP)..... Never ever Trust a Tory, what ever shade he may be!
Funny how this never happend or rather the extent never happened under a Labour government .... It's so frustrating and upsetting to see ordinary people simply take the NHS for Granted, we HAVE to protect this wonderful thing. Because when its gone its gone! You might all clearly be well off now, but at some point your children or children will need it!
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Soldato
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This is all i want, Nationalisation of certain services where all net income goes back into the service! National Rail is a prime example of this.
[TFU] Thegoon84;29812370 said:
I'm sorry but having been unemployed and on the bennies myself, if you get the full whack of housing benefit, income support, disability allowance etc. and can't afford food then you've made some awful financial decisions and it's not up to everyone else to cover that.
Soldato
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I'm sorry but having seen a LARGE and varied number of families i can tell you that some cope well and adapt, but others just collapse.
I was talking about Universal Credit, Not making a comment on personal allowances.... Each case is completely different. One thing is for sure, for many, "work does indeed NOT pay".
Also clearly pointed out the lack of investment or rather the cuts to vital services to people WHO ACTUALLY need the extra support are no longer there.
More often than not a bit of detailed work with families (which i'm not paid to do) will serve as a good temp fix to start people off on the budget'ing road.
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Soldato
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HERE LISTEN..... Universal Credit:
Day 1: Made unemployed, what ever (Most low paid workers dont have savings or pay offs).
Day 7: Now eligible to claim (7days without any income, regardless of if you have family to feed)
ASSESSMENT PERIOD
Day 35: Assessment period over, Entitlement worked out
Day 42: First Universal credit payment
So basically if you have 3 kids or Just yourself, you have ZERO income for 42 days!
You can after 7 days apply for a Crisis loan, which will then be charge at 20% of monthly income. ALSO you of course have likely gained rent arrears, meaning your landlord can apply for an APA which means your rent is paid directly to them plus an additional 20% charge!
I ask you people, do you thing its fair to loan benefit claimants their own money and then cripple them monthly.... You know who else does this... LOAN sharks!
Phil675, did you have to go through this pal? How did you budget ?
Day 1: Made unemployed, what ever (Most low paid workers dont have savings or pay offs).
Day 7: Now eligible to claim (7days without any income, regardless of if you have family to feed)
ASSESSMENT PERIOD
Day 35: Assessment period over, Entitlement worked out
Day 42: First Universal credit payment
So basically if you have 3 kids or Just yourself, you have ZERO income for 42 days!
You can after 7 days apply for a Crisis loan, which will then be charge at 20% of monthly income. ALSO you of course have likely gained rent arrears, meaning your landlord can apply for an APA which means your rent is paid directly to them plus an additional 20% charge!
I ask you people, do you thing its fair to loan benefit claimants their own money and then cripple them monthly.... You know who else does this... LOAN sharks!
Phil675, did you have to go through this pal? How did you budget ?
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[TFU] Thegoon84;29811528 said:
Or we could look again at PFI, broken research funding, silly pet projects Hunt has been entertaining the nation with, and state's bargaining power in procurement. Management has issues but it's far from being the single cause of such a sharp decline in the trusts' fortunes.
[TFU] Thegoon84;29812432 said:
To be fair I can't say I've dealt with UC, I have heard a story about someone missing an appointment because they had a kidney operation and they didn't get money for 6 weeks.
Work doesn't pay, this is something the Tories have been trying to address with personal tax allowance increases. If you are against mass zero hour contracts and employers treating workers like dirt you should also against unfiltered immigration, workers being ten a penny isn't going to improve things.
Support services are important to me I have a disabled 3 year old and and 2 year old that might have something going on too, I'm very grateful for the mental health services provided and agree that they should have the money to do their jobs, but you can't just keep providing these services forever as they cost a fortune.
I think we should be promoting an atmosphere of personal responsibility and helping people off the crutch of state support. As you say working with families who don't have a clue is good start, we need to break people out of this non-existence of state support, living without getting anywhere. Perhaps get IDS to go around badgering people
No. It's mostly to do with the Tories. Apart from their needless top-down reorganisation wasting huge amounts of money and making the NHS less efficiently run; they've also severely tightened the NHS budget while costs have grown. Now, maybe you buy into Osborne's austerity rubbish and believe the NHS needs to spend less but if you want to do that you actually have to accept that the service needs to be reduced. The Tories have tightened funding, reduced the efficiency of spending, and expected the same results. This is nonsense and was always going to fail, resulting in the funding gaps shown.
And this is about to get much worse as the Tories unfunded "seven day" (as if the NHS didn't work every day anyway) rubbish kicks in, and the increase minimum wage pushes up wage costs (a good thing, but a sensible government would have investigated the downstream costs and prepared to increase funding accordingly).
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Soldato
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[TFU] Thegoon84;29812476 said:
This assumes the people have no child benefit, no housing income already, absolutely nomincome in benefit terms and their only income was from the previous employment, which was lost without notice, and without any form of payoff or redunancy.
At what level would someone have been earning to have absolutely no income from the other sources of previous benefit?
Please explain.
funny how yet again people forget who started to move to privatisation in the nhs and who also encouraged the private finance initiative which loaded the nhs with huge loans and interest payments.
thats right kiddies that would have been the labour gov. but shhhh its more fun to sneer nasty tories and forget that.
thats right kiddies that would have been the labour gov. but shhhh its more fun to sneer nasty tories and forget that.
I was made redundant some time back and the hassle of getting benefits sorted and all the backwards and forwards to pointless interviews made not even bother to sign on when I was made redundant last - I went 10 weeks without a bean. I did ring up at week 2 and after being told on the phone 'I Should do it on line as it's priority' I hung up and after a while read a clip saying ignore the message and stay on the line.... so I waited 40mins to get through and the person at the other end said 'sorry the computers are down, you need to call back another time'.....
What a wonderful systems we have...
PFI and privatised sections were introduced by the Tories, actually. Although it was indeed Blair who made them such a big part of funding. This would come under reasons why I don't think getting another Blair is a good result for Labour or the country.
Under Labour, the NHS was still sufficiently funded, it's the coalition and the Tories who have led to massive deficits.
This is true however the NHS privatisation has been ramped up a gear now. The tories know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Blair wasn't really Labour as people are beginning to realise. His one real tenet as a Labour PM was an increase in Social spending and bloating public services.