The next Labour leader thread

I don't care what the conductor said - the pictures show it - lots of empty seats and that footage was minutes into the journey - were they all in the toilet at the same time?

This is what I mean about trying to defend something we can all see with our own eyes - unbelievable. I could say I was on that train and it was full (why would I lie?) but the pictures of the carriage show it was empty.

mind made up here - rant on all you like - I've seen the footage of him in a carriage with empty seats after the train left. The photo doesn't lie I'm afraid - spin it however you like
 
Zoe White said:
My boyfriend lives in London and travels every second Friday to Scotland via Virgin EC... 9 times out of ten his journeys on trains are crammed full of passengers... This doesn't apply to all days of the week... I 100% believe JC couldn't get a seat that day
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Oh, another person agreeing with what JC says... Must be a first class bull******

This is great actually come to think. Virgin may have just shot themselves in the foot (meaning another price hike like the one they applied since taking over the line).

Alex Howard said:
I've been a frequent user of this service and can confirm its often pretty bad
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And actually..... On and on and on they go
 
Hambut_Bulge said:
And, food for thought, where is Mrs Corbyn btw?
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I didn't even know he was married, that was kept low key.


Apparently none of his aides could reach him during the height of the Traingate fiasco as he was "busy making jam"! You couldn't make it up, you really couldn't.

What I find interesting is the almost total lack of any political satire to be found these days on TV or radio despite the surely golden opportunities for it. If I were a cynic I'd say all the BBC's leftie comedians are too busy having facepalm moments. If it was May who'd been committing these gaffes we'd probably hear no end of it.
 
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[TW]Fox;29939703 said:
You realise 90% of Virgin East Coast is owned not by Branson but by Stagecoach?
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I've seen the same bits of reading you have this morning thanks. Its also tax payer subsidised too so that the profits remain private.

Burnsy2023 said:
Then there are still around 10 seats empty...

I don't know why I'm really indulging you. It's clearly obvious that you're grasping at straws and not open to critically evaluating the evidence. Not sure anything can bring you back to reasoned discussion (assuming you ever were at the point of being able to have a reasoned discussion).
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Well, I've already said the majority of the evidence falls on my side of the scale. Its not up to me to make you realise it.

Faustus said:
You forget, I'm quite a bit older than you and been here many times before with Labour and the likes of Eric Heffer, Michael Foot, Derek Hatton. It ended in tears then, total electoral disaster and it will end the same again.

You, like the rabid labour activists before you will never see it, they couldn't then just like you can't see it now. Britain is not a country of extremists, however much you may wish it were different and when push comes to shove people like you and like Corbyn are never going to gain power.

If you want a Labour government then it will have to be a centrist government. Mr Blair understood that well which is why he won three elections.

It's up to you at the end of the day RaohNS, you can learn the art of pragmatism or spend the rest of your life tilting at windmills.
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I'm not exactly a rabid Labour activist. I just say what I see. When I see a man elected on 60%+ of membership being hounded by the press, stabbed in the back by his own party and harried and harassed incessantly by a media who has one goal (to eliminate a threat as proven conclusively by two reputable sources), then I will say something.

How old are you Faustus? I'm guessing at least 50 given your adumbration? What then, I wonder was your opinion of Tony Benn?
 
RaohNS said:
Oh, another person agreeing with what JC says... Must be a first class bull******

This is great actually come to think. Virgin may have just shot themselves in the foot (meaning another price hike like the one they applied since taking over the line).

And actually..... On and on and on they go
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Do these people say what time they use the East Coast line? Virgin do admit at peak it can be bad. We all know that. Corbyn though has used a pretty average off-peak journey to manufacture a story. It blew up in his face, and somehow this is the media's fault?
 
RaohNS said:
Oh, another person agreeing with what JC says... Must be a first class bull******
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Wait so instead of looking at the images on the last page and seeing for yourself, you are instead using the view of someone who doesn't use the train her self but going off what her boyfriend says and not about this train at the time JC was on it ?
 
jimjamuk said:
I don't care what the conductor said - the pictures show it - lots of empty seats and that footage was minutes into the journey - were they all in the toilet at the same time?

This is what I mean about trying to defend something we can all see with our own eyes - unbelievable. I could say I was on that train and it was full (why would I lie?) but the pictures of the carriage show it was empty.

mind made up here - rant on all you like - I've seen the footage of him in a carriage with empty seats after the train left. The photo doesn't lie I'm afraid - spin it however you like
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Mines made up to. Have to leave it at that then wont we.

Hambut_Bulge said:
Do these people say what time they use the East Coast line? Virgin do admit at peak it can be bad. We all know that. Corbyn though has used a pretty average off-peak journey to manufacture a story. It blew up in his face, and somehow this is the media's fault?
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No they don't but from comments I'm reading the situation seems to preponderate JC was correct. Lines up to the North from the South are bad at the best of times, lines from the midlands to the North can be just as bad. While I don't frequent London (and never intend to go to that dump again if I can help it) from logic it seems quite plausible at the least. The facts that have come to light are there were no seats, we have one picture showing one empty carriage when he walked past and that apparently outweighs multiple other evidence (however circumstantial for both arguments)
 
Hambut_Bulge said:
Do these people say what time they use the East Coast line? Virgin do admit at peak it can be bad. We all know that. Corbyn though has used a pretty average off-peak journey to manufacture a story. It blew up in his face, and somehow this is the media's fault?
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All train lines are the same from my experience

Commuter time (peak) rammed, its called peak for a reason
First train after peak, normally rammed, everyone who wants to go in the same direction but doesn't want to pay peak price (and probably have to stand as most seats already reserved for season ticket holders), eg a day trip to London.
Peak ticket £70, off peak £30

Rest of the time, highly unlikely to be any issue getting a seat (its also called off peak for a reason)
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the East Coast main line doesn't get busy or that it can be the case that there are no available seats. This is not hard to imagine or accept.

JC has a political agenda and did what most people do, they spin the truth and lie a bit to make a point. Most politicians do this because it's difficult to be in the right place at the right time when these things happen. I get that.

Whilst it is common, it's not right, and in this case JC was unfortunate enough to get called out. He's being defensive about it and trying to move the conversation back to his wider politcal point. It's not working though.
 
badgeruk said:
Wait so instead of looking at the images on the last page and seeing for yourself, you are instead using the view of someone who doesn't use the train her self but going off what her boyfriend says and not about this train at the time JC was on it ?
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Well... There is also the pictures I posted... But because its me posting they must be a "conspiracy".

The arguments:
JC was lying: There is a pic showing him walking through an empty carriage

JC is telling the truth: We see a pic showing the train full, plus his footage, we see a CCTV clip showing fully reserved coach (at least one), we have people taking selfies with him on the floor, we have a conductor (by default) saying there were no seats, we have multiple tweets from people saying the train was packed plus additional regular users of the service also stating so

Who's being obtuse?
 
Burnsy2023 said:
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the East Coast main line doesn't get busy or that it can be the case that there are no available seats. This is not hard to imagine or accept.

JC has a political agenda and did what most people do, they spin the truth and lie a bit to make a point. Most politicians do this because it's difficult to be in the right place at the right time when these things happen. I get that.

Whilst it is common, it's not right, and in this case JC was unfortunate enough to get called out. He's being defensive about it and trying to move the conversation back to his wider politcal point. It's not working though.
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A bit like Blair you mean???
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Apparently MP's are frequently offered a free upgrade to 1st class, some refuse to so they can appear like the common man or whatever, but most accept. I'd accept too.
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Unless I had kids with me that were exceptionally tired or my partner who was pregnant nope.

I had a passenger on at me because I told my partner to stay put in this passengers reserved seat. Didn't like it but on a packed Virgin train no way she would be standing for the duration of the journey.
 
RaohNS said:
And the reaction to him doing it was..... Nothing like this I'm betting.

Media narrative again.
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It was different because DC didn't get really defensive about it, it's a part of modern politics and he accepted that.

JC prides himself on doing things differently, but that's simply not possible within the current system. He's coming across as hypocritical trying to manage the realities and his ideals.
 
XeNoN89 said:
This was a misleading picture

Corbyn took a misleading picture/video, and lied and then lied more when he got caught out.
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I refer you to this again:

Raoh said:
The arguments:
JC was lying: There is a pic showing him walking through an empty carriage

JC is telling the truth: We see a pic showing the train full, plus his footage, we see a CCTV clip showing fully reserved coach (at least one), we have people taking selfies with him on the floor, we have a conductor (by default) saying there were no seats, we have multiple tweets from people saying the train was packed plus additional regular users of the service also stating so
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