Israeli soldier *murders* wounded Palestinian on camera, gets away with it maybe?

[prosk]

Being 'fair and balanced' to the terrorists is working out so well at defeating the latest global jihadi wave hasn't it? We need to stop trying to figure out what these terrorists want all the time, what we should do is figure out how to stop them.

Glad to see that President Trump will stop the dangerous prisoner releases from Guantanamo Bay. Expect that place to get full again quick.

Have you ever wondered why terrorists attack public places like train stations and airports with the intention to cause as much collateral damage as possible? Why don't they attack the politicians responsible? It's not like you or I flew to their country and bombed them...

It's because they see us as all the same. In their eyes we're all guilty for the attacks on their countries. It might not be true, but it's not an entirely unjustified point of view either, because we didn't stand up to our goverment when they decided to bomb a country on the other side of the world which never did anything to us. I imagine that when one has lost their family, their home, their land and their peaceful life, they're probably not too picky about who their enemies are.

Your view that they are all the same and need to be crushed is no different. Your perspective is validating and feeding their holy war. You want to know how to stop it? Stop attacking them in their own land. Stop taking their resources by force. Stop trying to decide the fate of their countries. Perhaps they'll stop believing in holy wars once we stop bombing them back into the middle ages. But perhaps you think it won't matter once they're all dead.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

A bunch of people of mostly European descent move to the middle east en masse as (due to their religious beliefs it is their 'homeland') and a bunch of the actual natives/locals end up fighting with them. Not too surprising.

Britain has done worse in their past. So you now expect other countries to live up to expectations your own has broke many times even within the past 100 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre

 

[h4rm0ny]

European descent? the Jews are not from Europe?

actual natives???? the Jews are the actual natives from the Area before being force out by the arabs?

A good book (for those willing to take the time) is The Invention of the Jewish People by Shlomo Sands who is a professor of history in Tel Aviv if memory serves.

The claim to Israel is one of belief rather than ancestry for the most part. Sure, many Jewish people can claim some ancient hebrew descent. They can equally claim some ancient Mongol descent from when Genghis Kahn spawned his insane number of progeny everywhere he invaded. That's the thing about ancestors - they multiply in number and source the further back you go. Most of the Jews who moved to Israel are Europeans. Not that, imo, someone would get the right to return 1500 years later and say "What are you doing in my house?" anyway.

Part of the problem is that many people conflate anti-zionisim with anti-semitisim.

It is perfectly possible to the the former without being the latter

Very much this. The dirtiest trick the Israeli government and its supporters have ever pulled is to equate Zionism with Jewishness. It's a deliberate attempt to paint any criticism of Israel as criticism of Jews. There are many Jews who are not Zionists. There are many Zionists who are not Jews. For example, the former Attorney General of the United States, John Ashcroft, belongs to a church that believes Israel must be Jewish for the end times to come. (They also regard the end times as a good thing). He's a Christian. Like many (American) Christians, he is a staunch Zionist.

The two should not conflated and people who immediately respond to legitimate criticism of Israeli foreign policy with accusations of anti-semitism do more to stir up actual anti-semitism than any neo-nazi party. After all, the latter is just spreading a load of easily refuted ********. The former is actually discussing real and tragic behaviour and attempting to say that because the perpetrator happened to be Jewish, it's the action / position of all Jews. It's a tactic to dismiss criticism but what it actually does is promote anti-semiticism. Therefore I hate the equating of zionism and jewish as synonymous.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

So anyone that is concerned about the summary execution of a wounded prisoner (by a medic!) is anti-semitic?

Where is their concern for murdered Jews? I guarantee most of those expressing "concern" here have never shown the same concern for the deaths of Israelis. The constant assaults on Jews in their homeland passes by without comment. But an actual terrorist dies and suddenly it's something to be concerned about?

That is the antisemitism. And anti-zionism IS antisemitism. The fact some anti semites are clever enough to try and hide their abhorrent racism behind word play is laughable.

 

[platypus]

It might not be true, but it's not an entirely unjustified point of view either, because we didn't stand up to our goverment when they decided to bomb a country on the other side of the world which never did anything to us.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but an awful lot of people did protest the Iraq invasion to no avail.

 

[cheesyboy]

Britain has done worse in their past. So you now expect other countries to live up to expectations your own has broke many times even within the past 100 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre

I doubt those opposed to Israel would defend such atrocities under Britain's colonial past, to be honest.

 

[platypus]

And anti-zionism IS antisemitism.

Lets see your reasoning.

 

[dowie]

The actual civilian deaths during the recent assault on Aleppo was in the region of 1600. We're not talking about the entire war here, rather the Russian backed assault on it over the last couple of months. That number is lower than the number of civilian deaths from the attack on the Gaza Strip last year (over 2000).

While there was media outrage at the death of civilians on in the Aleppo assault there just wasn't the outrage at Israel doing a very similar thing in the Gaza Strip.

Edit : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28439404
The 1600 is not actually only the recent push, but estimated deaths over the last ~year, so the true number is lower.

Sure if you now constrain it just a couple of months, however if all Assad had done was that then there wouldn't be anywhere near the levels of condemnation you're talking about. There have been more like 20,000 killed, far more than Gaza and that is in the context of a rather larger conflict with even more civilian deaths. The two just aren't very comparable.

 

[scorza]

Have you ever wondered why terrorists attack public places like train stations and airports with the intention to cause as much collateral damage as possible? Why don't they attack the politicians responsible? It's not like you or I flew to their country and bombed them...

It's because they see us as all the same. In their eyes we're all guilty for the attacks on their countries. It might not be true, but it's not an entirely unjustified point of view either, because we didn't stand up to our goverment when they decided to bomb a country on the other side of the world which never did anything to us. I imagine that when one has lost their family, their home, their land and their peaceful life, they're probably not too picky about who their enemies are.

Your view that they are all the same and need to be crushed is no different. Your perspective is validating and feeding their holy war. You want to know how to stop it? Stop attacking them in their own land. Stop taking their resources by force. Stop trying to decide the fate of their countries. Perhaps they'll stop believing in holy wars once we stop bombing them back into the middle ages. But perhaps you think it won't matter once they're all dead.

The reason they attack soft targets like airports and train stations is primarily because they hate us and want to kill us all, or at least subjugate us, by committing civilian massacres they look strong which attracts recruits. Secondarily it's also because if they attack hard targets they'll lose and look weak.

Their holy war is a fact and nothing we can do will stop that - except by defeating it. I ask you what's the point of a 'fair and balanced' judicial system if it ensures its replacement with Sharia law, which is anything but.

 

[dowie]

Britain has done worse in their past. So you now expect other countries to live up to expectations your own has broke many times even within the past 100 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre

What has some massacre in India got to do with my comment. So what if the UK did something bad too at x date??? How is that relevant to the post?

 

[deuse]

He was only following the number one rule "Double Tap"

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Lets see your reasoning.

What is Zionism? It's the idea that the Jewish people have a homeland in what is now modern Israel. If you oppose this, then you are clearly against the Jewish people. Because what are a people without a homeland; or are the Jews uniquely charged with having to live as immigrants in other peoples countries?

Israel is to the Jews what Britain is to the British, Germany to the Germans. Denying them this land is an evil. Palestinians meanwhile are just Arab settlers, squatting on Israeli land.

 

[TheMightyTen]

And anti-zionism IS antisemitism. The fact some anti semites are clever enough to try and hide their abhorrent racism behind word play is laughable.

Now you're just trolling as usual because all the attention gives you some sort of fap urge

beligerant ignorance is not a positive human trait

 

[prosk]

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but an awful lot of people did protest the Iraq invasion to no avail.

That's true. We're just not anti-war enough collectively. We don't elect anti-war politicians. The wars we make are in other countries and therefore we as citizens are detached from them and their concequences.

 

[dowie]

What is Zionism? It's the idea that the Jewish people have a homeland in what is now modern Israel. If you oppose this, then you are clearly against the Jewish people. Because what are a people without a homeland; or are the Jews uniquely charged with having to live as immigrants in other peoples countries?

Eh? So every religious group deserves a homeland? Where do you propose we put the Scientology 'homeland'? What about the mormons or the sikhs? Nothing unique.

As for 'immigrants' hardly, European Jews are mostly descended from Europeans, the arabs are the locals for the most part. I'm in favour of a two state solution as Israelis have been ther for a couple of generations now however it certainly isn't anti Semitic to be anti Zionist and your post trying to claim it is is rather flawed.

 

[platypus]

What is Zionism? It's the idea that the Jewish people have a homeland in what is now modern Israel.

Good start.

If you oppose this, then you are clearly against the Jewish people.

All downhill from your next sentence however.

 

[h4rm0ny]

We need to stop trying to figure out what these terrorists want all the time, what we should do is figure out how to stop them.

Sometimes you can do two things at once. And sometimes, the answer to both questions can be the same as well. 9/11 was a response to the US military presence in Saudi Arabia where they keep in power a frankly nasty regime. Understanding that, the US could potentially have stopped propping up that regime and 9/11 would not have happened.

Honestly, for you to post that we should stop trying to understand the causes of terrorism and focus on stopping it is bizarrely self-contradictory. I think what you really mean is as a staunch holder of one viewpoint, you are angry about other people considering another.

I don't have a problem releasing them when the war on terror is over and we've won.

How can you have a war on a concept? How can you tell when you have defeated that concept? When did the US make a declaration of war against "terrorists"?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

What is Zionism? It's the idea that the Jewish people have a homeland in what is now modern Israel. If you oppose this, then you are clearly against the Jewish people. Because what are a people without a homeland; or are the Jews uniquely charged with having to live as immigrants in other peoples countries?

Israel is to the Jews what Britain is to the British, Germany to the Germans. Denying them this land is an evil. Palestinians meanwhile are just Arab settlers, squatting on Israeli land.

No - this requires you to believe yourself that they have a right to their supposed homeland, by your definition at least.

I don't have a bloody homeland?! And none of the Jews living in Israel can claim Israel as their homeland, in my opinion, because the people that originally settled there are certainly not those that lived there before.

Frankly, I care much more about the Palestinians.

 

[Efour]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

I'm not sure who said it but it's never been truer.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Eh? So every religious group deserves a homeland? Where do you propose we put the Scientology 'homeland'? What about the mormons or the sikhs? Nothing unique.

As for 'immigrants' hardly, European Jews are mostly descended from Europeans, the arabs are the locals for the most part. I'm in favour of a two state solution as Israelis have been ther for a couple of generations now however it certainly isn't anti Semitic to be anti Zionist and your post trying to claim it is is rather flawed.

The Jewish people are not just a religious group, in fact many Jews are not even religious. Jews are a distinct ethnic group by any measure of the term.