I don't understand racism or homophobia

Tefal said:
Race is real though. I mean we have numerous laws based around the concept of race.
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Laws don't make something real. Laws reflect social norms, religions, ideologies, concepts. They're not necessarily based on things that are real. For example, in the USA a couple of hundred years ago it was law that "black" people were inferior to "white" people. Does that mean they really were?

Yout list seems a very bizare mix of empire's, regions and countries as oposed to a racial list.
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Your question seems a very bizarre classification by fictional concept rather than classification by anything relevant. You wanted broad strokes, so I used broad strokes. "India", for example, rather than a more accurate description. India as such didn't exist in ~1000 BC. Besides, I don't know which Indian country or countries made the major contributions to knowledge back then. Same goes for China.

Classifying people by an obviously, ludicrously inaccurate description of how much suntan they have makes no sense. It's not real.
 
The scum that tortured that poor white guy have been charged.

"Jordan Hill, 18, of Carpentersville; Tesfaye Cooper, 18, of Chicago; Brittany Covington, 18, of Chicago; and Tanishia Covington, 24, of Chicago,
were each charged with aggravated kidnapping, hate crime, aggravated unlawful restraint and aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. Hill,
Cooper and Brittany Covington also face charges of residential burglary. Hill was also charged with robbery."

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ens-Torture-on-Facebook-Live-409772755.html?s

Well done US Police.
 
Dis86 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38514759

It's things like that which don't exactly help matters. Clearly race related.
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If that was four white people kidnapping, torturing and racially abusing a black then right about now more than a few cities in the US would be ablaze and in the grip of widespread rioting and looting. I imagine the media would be having a field day with it and social media would be in meltdown.
 
Malevolence said:
If that was four white people kidnapping, torturing and racially abusing a black then right about now more than a few cities in the US would be ablaze and in the grip of widespread rioting and looting. I imagine the media would be having a field day with it and social media would be in meltdown.
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Don't disagree.
 
stewski said:
On the whole skin pigmentation category of humans.
Arguably you couldn't pick a less useful way of categorising for human similarity.

Africa is the most genetically diverse continental population (which supports the out of Africa premise for human kind)

There are a number isolated geographic areas where populations (due to environment probably) have retained similar skin pigmentation/features, yet now have the greatest distance (genetically) from the African population.

Skin pigmentation is likely one of the most quickly adaptive phenotypes that we know of.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color

Obviously some of the factual points about skin colour are as controversial to dark skinned people as lighter skinned people.

My big take away from reading about our understanding of genetic distance is simply similar appearances do not really imply genetic closeness.

As for the idea that racism is somehow natural.

1. Show some evidence beyond, "I think like this, so I believe everybody does".
2. Natural to what/who:
Some big cats males eat/kill the young of competitive males.
Sterile Ants work to protect and serve the colony.

Making points about distant "cousins" or unrelated organism seem to entirely ignore the obvious differences human evolution appears to display. Humans pass generational information on, in ways that none of those organisms appear to. I'm unaware of ant/chimp/tiger production of memes.
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Pretty much my train of thought, you put it better than I can though. I think the whole bear analogy and other brainless ramblings have left me a little dumbfounded.

Interesting information about adaptation in pigmentation there.
 
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Yeah, lots of brainless ramblings, such as prey being defined as same species only

Also I learnt humans have no natural instinct to hunt, a productive day :)
 
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Tosno said:
Yeah, lots of brainless ramblings, such as prey being defined as same species only

Also I learnt humans have no natural instinct to hunt, a productive day :)
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If humans have strong "natural" instincts to hunt, murder the offspring of competitors and anything else you observed other organisms doing on planet earth II. With presumably humans having little (to zero) or at least lesser "natural" instinct to farm, pair up and send our offspring to institutions of higher learning, write poetry, create art or fly to the moon.

What would/should these suggested "natural" instincts have to do with human behaviour now, especially in regards to fairly ill defined "racism"?

You could arguably make a case that all life on earth should have strong "natural" instincts to reproduce asexually, because at some point in evolution it probably did.

Are jungles more natural? Why not go live and die in one?

Or perhaps we can propose an evidenced based approach to considering the value of attempted sub divisions of human beings; as opposed to randomly applying some trivial observation of other organisms and then using that to enforce personal cognitive bias.
 
stewski said:
If humans have strong "natural" instincts to hunt, murder the offspring of competitors and anything else you observed other organisms doing on planet earth II. With presumably humans having little (to zero) or at least lesser "natural" instinct to farm, pair up and send our offspring to institutions of higher learning, write poetry, create art or fly to the moon.

What would/should these suggested "natural" instincts have to do with human behaviour now, especially in regards to fairly ill defined "racism"?

You could arguably make a case that all life on earth should have strong "natural" instincts to reproduce asexually, because at some point in evolution it probably did.

Are jungles more natural? Why not go live and die in one?

Or perhaps we can propose an evidenced based approach to considering the value of attempted sub divisions of human beings; as opposed to randomly applying some trivial observation of other organisms and then using that to enforce personal cognitive bias.
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More sophistism. I said humans have a natural instinct to hunt prey. You added the word strong, I didn't, if I did please quote me :confused: :D Why was that? Was your argument low energy without it? You added murdering offspring and off you went on your sophist rocket :D

http://giphy.com/gifs/park-giraffic-13XEXC59E7asI8
 
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ScoTTyBEEE said:
There are differences other than skin tone and sexual preference. This is where it comes from.
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Jesus, that's the most disgusting sentence iv ever read on ocuk.... Doctor are you? Saying other than skin tone gay or black people are somehow biologically more akin to something?

I really don't care if I get shouted at by mods here but that sentence is horrendous.... Your connotation is very dark, ur implying ur superior somehow in ur tone, and that people of colour have other biological differences.... Guess what they have zero biological differences, we all have melanin in our skin..... Ur a messed up human; poster.
 
Combat squirrel said:
Jesus, that's the most disgusting sentence iv ever read on ocuk.... Doctor are you? Saying other than skin tone gay or black people are somehow biologically more akin to something?

I really don't care if I get shouted at by mods here but that sentence is horrendous.... Your connotation is very dark, ur implying ur superior somehow in ur tone, and that people of colour have other biological differences.... Guess what they have zero biological differences, we all have melanin in our skin..... Ur a messed up human; poster.
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If he was a doctor would that make his sentence perfectly ok in your eyes?


He does have a point though there are differences in general behavior when it comes to gays. But i think that's more to do with 2 gay men both being men than being gay.

Men take far more risks especialy around sex.


But out of curiosity is that stereotyping of men, as disgusting in your mind?
 
Tefal said:
So racism doesnt exist because race doesnt exist?


Great problem sloved.
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Why are you asking such a silly question? Nobody you're "replying" to has said that racism doesn't exist, so your question isn't relevant to anything anyone has said. Either you've completely missed the point or you're deliberately misrepresenting people.

"Race" isn't real in that it doesn't have any sound basis in biology. A trivial difference in a handful of genes that has no effect on almost everything isn't a sound basis for classifying people and the usual way of defining "race" is even sillier than that since it's just an obviously wrong description of how much suntan a person has. It would still be nonsense to classify people by an accurate description of how much suntan they have, but "race" isn't even that. It's classification based on an obviously wrong description of a single trivial factor irrelevant to almost everything.

Then there's the fact that variation within a "race" is far, far greater than variation between "races". If you picked even just a handful of "black" people and a handful of "white" people at random and did a full genetic comparison you'd be very likely to find more variation within a "race" than between the "races", even with such a tiny sample size.

Then there's the fact that genetic diversity in the whole of humanity is remarkably low. So low that the most likely explanation is that humanity was close to extinction a relatively short time ago. At a genetic level, we're all so very similar that any subclassification is at best a bit dubious. If you picked two gorillas at random from 10 miles apart and two humans at random from opposite sides of the earth you'd probably find more genetic diversity between the gorillas than the humans.

But the fact that "race" isn't really a real thing has no relevance to whether or not some people have irrational prejudices based on it. That's about what people believe, not what's real. Two completely different things.
 
DAIR said:
Fact is I would never know lol.

Unless they came out and said "Daniel.... We've decided not to give you the job because you're black". Even then I would probably see it as a lucky escape. Life is far too short to take offence so easily.
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And what happens if the same thing happens in the next interview, and the next, and the next. And then the only job you can get is being hired by someone of the same ethnicity to clean toilets, even though you have a degree in astrophysics?

Would you just get over it then?

Especially if you were consistently being stopped on the streets by police because of the colour of your skin as you were going to and from those interviews.

While being black in the UK isn't half as bad as it used to be it seems asian/middle eastern women are now in the same position black workers were 50 years ago. There is still discrimination based on ethnicity and it's holding a large section of society back.
 
Angilion said:
Why are you asking such a silly question? Nobody you're "replying" to has said that racism doesn't exist, .
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No you just said race doesnt exist.


Hard to be "ist" agaibst somrthing that doesnt exist



I think you'll find the idea that race doesnt exist is a very fringe and bizzare view.
 
stewski said:
So to the issue that scientific orthodoxy is that sub species taxonomy in humans has no value other than telling us what seemingly irrelevant external features some people have culturally used to define sub groups.

And the fact that in larger populations the genetic distance between populations is less than that within populations.

And the fact that the 2 populations with the greatest genetic distance between them (aboriginals and africans) would simply be classed as "black" by most measures.

Even with all that in mind, your answer is, some forms/laws in the UK cite race so it must be defined/valuable?

I suspect you'll "crack on" with your top 10 races idea, regardless of how clearly un evidenced/illogical/irrational anyone shows it to be then...
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Interesting so since you seem so incredibly hung up on genetics, or at least a poor summary/abstract of a paper you googled.


What defines what is a man and a woman?


Genetics or laws?
 
Combat squirrel said:
Jesus, that's the most disgusting sentence iv ever read on ocuk.... Doctor are you? Saying other than skin tone gay or black people are somehow biologically more akin to something?

I really don't care if I get shouted at by mods here but that sentence is horrendous.... Your connotation is very dark, ur implying ur superior somehow in ur tone, and that people of colour have other biological differences.... Guess what they have zero biological differences, we all have melanin in our skin..... Ur a messed up human; poster.
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I didn't say it was biological. Shall I leave you in your safe space for a while longer before we can talk like adults?

It's already been stated here some people find overly camp gay people annoying. I don't see how this is biological in any way.

Much like how I've already pointed out statistically black people are more prone to murdering and being murdered (by other black people). I wouldn't say this is necessarily biological, just merely showing differences that can cause prejudice and racism.

Chemsex, i.e. Taking lots of drugs and having promiscuous sex is very heavily confined to gay people. Is this biologically defined behaviour? Unlikely. Could some people frown upon this and cause a general aversion to gay people in general? Of course it could.

Brown people are more likely to wail from a minaret several times a day. Biological, no; annoying? for some yes, and can cause resentment and racism.

I'd appreciate a decent response rather than saying my sentence is one of the most disgusting things you've ever read here. Am I really a messed up human?
 
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Amp34 said:
And what happens if the same thing happens in the next interview, and the next, and the next. And then the only job you can get is being hired by someone of the same ethnicity to clean toilets, even though you have a degree in astrophysics?

Would you just get over it then?

Especially if you were consistently being stopped on the streets by police because of the colour of your skin as you were going to and from those interviews.

While being black in the UK isn't half as bad as it used to be it seems asian/middle eastern women are now in the same position black workers were 50 years ago. There is still discrimination based on ethnicity and it's holding a large section of society back.
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Well I've been doing okay (I'm black). I'm not saying racial discrimination doesn't exist. I just refuse to believe it is as common as a lot of you suggest it is.

Why is it people like to make out that we (as black people). Need all the help we can get?

I don't hear Asians moaning about not being given fair opportunities. These days
 
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DAIR said:
Well I've been doing okay (I'm black). I'm not saying racial discrimination doesn't exist. I just refuse to believe it is as common as a lot of you suggest it is.

Why is it people like to make out that we (as black people). Need all the help we can get?

I don't hear Asians moaning about not being given fair opportunities. These days
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Because people are stuck in the racist mindset of black people cant look after themselves.


Half the SJWs in this thread a few hubdred years ago would have been saying how good slavery was because it made sure nlack people were looked after.



But on the subject of asians having a look at the grades for entry to medical schools in the usa (theres a table somewhere)

Blacks have a consideribly lower grade average yet are accepted because they have tsrgets.

Whites have higher than blacks to gain entry.


Asians have way higher grades to be accepted.

.so if youre in the usa you want your doctor to be asian as he had to work harder than anyone to get there
 
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