RMT to ballot for strike action.

In Toulouse the entire network is automated. They also have glass panels which stop the jumpers. Runs like clockwork. Not timed it but 1 'train' comes every 5 minutes or thereabout. No staff anywhere, but there is a lot of cameras.
 
Caged said:
That's fine where you have choices of where to go. A lot of the heavily unionised workforces don't have that choice - a change of job necessitates a career change and dropping to the bottom of the ladder again. So I can see why people are keen to fight back.

It's not like a train driver operating a particular class and on specific routes can walk into an equivalent role within a few weeks of deciding they dislike their current employer.

Granted this applies less to station staff roles, but it's likely that any change of employment for them would come with a large drop in earnings and benefits, so it's worth fighting for if that option exists.
Click to expand...


the way you state a large drop in earnings and benefits - implies current job is overpaying

surely a tube-driver for example has plenty of transferable skills that could be well used in other parts of the rail network, be it as a driver or otherwise

most job changes require some element of re-training

if the answer is no can't be done - then the job really is over-paying
 
Scam said:
The people on the DLR are probably there because the union's insisted. Here, have a gander at this list. Yeah, automated trains, what a pipedream: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

You do realise drivers on the Victoria line get paid over £40k to open the doors?
Click to expand...

I've seen the list, none of the fully automated trains are deep level railways built in the 1800s with curved platforms and then successfully converted to automatic operation. The list also makes no mention of whether the system as a whole runs entirely without staff.

Every time this topic comes up people say "just automate it!", except in this case it's not even the drivers going on strike yet it's closing the system down.
 
curved platforms - crikey how may the software cope with that ?

whether manual or automated tube cabs - trains stop at same place repeatedly do they not ?
 
I think the most telling fact is that those train or tube on strike obviously have zero consideration for other people who are just trying to get to/from work
 
Buckster said:
curved platforms - crikey how may the software cope with that ?
Click to expand...

Automated systems have platform edge doors. They are difficult to build on a relatively tight curve.

None of this is an insurmountable problem but how much are people willing to pay in terms of fare rises to avoid closures caused by driver strikes, and how much disruption are people willing to put up with to get the work done?

I am not against automation, I believe any new systems should be built to the highest standards of automation possible, but I'm also not naive enough to think that driverless trains on existing lines is politically achievable will prevent all of the closures due to strike action.
 
Last edited:
its quite telling to see that in 116 yars of operation , only 8 people have been killed as a result of the trains on the metro. And that was a terrorist attack, in 1995.

since 2000 - 3 incidents ,total of 55 injuries and 0 deaths.

rather good safety record for the automatics
 
Caged said:
Automated systems have platform edge doors. They are difficult to build on a relatively tight curve.

None of this is an insurmountable problem but how much are people willing to pay in terms of fare rises to avoid closures caused by driver strikes, and how much disruption are people willing to put up with to get the work done?
Click to expand...


quite willing - if it gets round a very small minority practically holding a capital to ransom

found this article on salaries - I know London "weighted as such"

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/...massive-salaries-of-tfl-workers/11675.article

the annual leave bit surprised me !
 
mipcvb.jpg


Paris Metro , line1 , Bastille station.

train is approaching to stop on the curved platform.
 
Potentially because it's not underground but I don't know the specifics or whether it's different when it goes into Bank.

I'm not saying that an automated system is impossible, but it requires a lot of money and legislation changes to things like minimum staffing levels at sub-surface stations for fire regulation reasons - which are obviously there for a reason, and changing them because people dislike TfL workers doesn't seem like a good enough counter to the regulations existing. If you get the trains working without staff but can't open the stations then you haven't fixed anything.
 
Last edited:
A £30k starting salary to work underground all day is abuse?

I feel we're getting to the fashionable viewpoint in the modern day of looking at a person who earns more than another, and concluding that means the person earning more is overpaid.
 
Last edited:
Caged said:
I've seen the list, none of the fully automated trains are deep level railways built in the 1800s with curved platforms and then successfully converted to automatic operation. The list also makes no mention of whether the system as a whole runs entirely without staff.

Every time this topic comes up people say "just automate it!", except in this case it's not even the drivers going on strike yet it's closing the system down.
Click to expand...
I'd say most of the automated metro systems have minimal station staff. In fact it's even more likely that no station staff exist on those networks due to the fact the trains are automated. Certainly my example of Singapore.

Caged said:
A £30k starting salary to work underground all day is abuse?
Click to expand...
Most stations on the Tube are actually overground.

TFL said:
Proportion of network in tunnels: 45%
Click to expand...
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/what-we-do/london-underground/facts-and-figures
 
Buckster said:
I don't get striking - if I didn't like a change of terms I'd have to make the difficult decision whether to agree to them - even if it meant changes - or find another job

if the company I worked for suddenly said - you'll now have to work overnight instead of during the day, or that I had to move location - I'd have to choose whether I still wanted the job or whether I'd leave and try and find something else

striking would never even cross my mind
Click to expand...

wow do you know how thick you sound.
 
Yes, because the lines in Singapore were built with automation in mind and are new. My issue isn't with automation, it's with people making the the assumption that driverless trains on the underground would make them strike-proof.

Maybe building new Underground lines and stations to be completely automated can be part of that infrastructure spend that Mrs May is keen on? Could build one in Manchester as well, it's a nice city and it would be a decent addition.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom