So, what is an "Offensive Weapon" anyway??

tom_e · 2 Feb 2017 at 10:09

TheMightyTen said:
Legitimate door security is a god send and a literal life saver in many situations unfortunately Brum, even in the era of licensing, suffers with far too many dodgy club security companies who are just one of the profit making arms of the local gangs. A lad can't get in to a rock club with a wallet pocket chain (sartorially stupid items that they are!) but they'll let their "mates" in carrying all forms of hardware and the gear they're going to be flogging to the punters .............. but that's a whole other topic for discussion

Most of my time was spent working in Brum so I can't disagree although it makes for a much more interesting evening when you spend it turning away tooled up Johnsons and Burger boys and then waiting for their inevitable mob handed return

Roar87 · 2 Feb 2017 at 10:11

You're looking at it in the wrong way, the actual item is less important than the reason you're carrying it. If you're a chef on the way to work and need to transport a set of large knives in a carrying case that's not going to be an issue, where as carrying the same knives with no reasonable excuse is illegal. Carrying a hammer around isn't a problem if you've just bought it and you're taking it home, or need it to help with DIY at a friends house. If you're carrying it to look intimidating or as a self defense weapon then you're going to be in trouble.

TheMightyTen · 2 Feb 2017 at 10:13

Roar87 said:
You're looking at it in the wrong way, the actual item is less important than the reason you're carrying it. If you're a chef on the way to work and need to transport a set of large knives in a carrying case that's not going to be an issue, where as carrying the same knives with no reasonable excuse is illegal. Carrying a hammer around isn't a problem if you've just bought it and you're taking it home, or need it to help with DIY at a friends house. If you're carrying it to look intimidating or as a self defense weapon then you're going to be in trouble.

I've highlighted the important bit

tom_e said:
Most of my time was spent working in Brum so I can't disagree although it makes for a much more interesting evening when you spend it turning away tooled up Johnsons and Burger boys and then waiting for their inevitable mob handed return

Digbeth is still like the Wild West even today

, The Custard Factory trying to go more up market and the Hipsters moving in hasn't made a blind bit of difference

tom_e · 2 Feb 2017 at 10:18

My main place was the Factory club and Space 2 back before they tried dragging The Custard Factory upmarket many an interesting evening was had. The promoters and owners were as difficult to deal with as the punters most of the time

Teknobry · 2 Feb 2017 at 10:19

All comes down to intent. I could take my shotgun on the bus if i'm heading to the clay ground.

FurryLemon · 2 Feb 2017 at 10:19

Does it really make that much difference if it's being carried in a plastic bag? Anyone with intent on using it will do so, regardless of how it's carried.

TheMightyTen · 2 Feb 2017 at 10:26

FurryLemon said:
Does it really make that much difference if it's being carried in a plastic bag? Anyone with intent on using it will do so, regardless of how it's carried.

It's not just about the carrying though it's about the intimidation that open carrying creates. Anyone with intent will use regardless and you can't in any easy form create non-draconian laws to prevent that, you can only create laws based on outcomes. You can how ever easily create laws that remove the intimidating presence of items from obvious public view as carrying them openly is entirely unnecessary.

Teknobry said:
All comes down to intent. I could take my shotgun on the bus if i'm heading to the clay ground.

No you can't

a1ex2001 · 2 Feb 2017 at 10:27

It's all about intent, I know people who have been stopped by the police carrying empty bottles late at night similarly I have walked through a busy shopping centre carrying a felling axe in one hand without any questions being asked. If a police officer believes you don't have any justification for carrying said item then he should question you and if you can explain why you have need of the item then he should let you go about your business.

TheMightyTen said:
It's not just about the carrying though it's about the intimidation that open carrying creates. Anyone with intent will use regardless and you can't in any easy form create non-draconian laws to prevent that, you can only create laws based on outcomes. You can how ever easily create laws that remove the intimidating presence of items from obvious public view as carrying them openly is entirely unnecessary.

See I'd rather know the guy opposite me has a hammer/axe/cleaver than not know, it's not the presence of the item that is intimidating but the way it is held and if someone is holding a hammer in such a way as to scare/intimidate then it is probably an offensive weapon.

Andy90 · 2 Feb 2017 at 11:18

As the CPS would authorise a charge, take a look at their guidelines - tells you all you need to know.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/

jumpy · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:03

TheMightyTen said:
No you can't

Yes, you can.

Subject to some basic safety rules.

Nasher · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:07

Yes, you can take a shotgun on the bus. As long as it's not loaded and in a proper case.

Rroff · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:10

jumpy said:
Yes, you can.

Subject to some basic safety rules.

Yeah but there are rules for transportation which mostly mean you can't just carry the weapon on bare.

opstrat · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:11

It's a bit of a weird one as with the shotgun. You carry the shotgun in a case or slip and it is legal. If you put the hammer in a plastic carrier bag all you have now is someone who has just purchased a hammer. Maybe the guy refused to pay the 5p for a bag.

jumpy · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:32

Rroff said:
Yeah but there are rules for transportation which mostly mean you can't just carry the weapon on bare.

yeah, subject to some basic rules; I was alluding to cases/ammunition carry etc.

Whilst there's no law against carrying a legally held firearm on public transport, some operators might have their own policies regarding them - ie verboten. (mostly if you ring CS no-one will be able to give you a straight answer)

But if your case doesn't look like a gun and is secure as far as the law is concerned, who's to know what you're carrying.

Nasher · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:34

Pfft who cares about their own policy. Just walk on, they are unlikely to even notice

Terminal_Boy · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:35

And as with the hammer, you'd best have a very good reason for why you are in possession of a firearm in a public place if stopped by the police.

Teknobry · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:38

Terminal_Boy said:
And as with the hammer, you'd best have a very good reason for why you are in possession of a firearm in a public place if stopped by the police.

which comes back to the original point, it's not what you're carrying but what your intent with it is.

jumpy · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:57

FAC/SGC holders would not be taking their firearms on public transport for the lols.
Either they are going to a shoot or their gunshop/smith, or returning from same.
Most of them take their ownership quite seriously.

peterwalkley · 2 Feb 2017 at 12:58

Maccy said:
I think you're overdue a ~~ban~~name change, especially for that poor taste "joke".

Fixed that for you.

Rroff · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:00

Teknobry said:
which comes back to the original point, it's not what you're carrying but what your intent with it is.

Which is quite a complex one for knives legal carry or not.