Shots fired outside parliament - Please refrain from speculative and antagonistic posts

FishFluff · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:08

Chris Wilson said:
This attacker is allegedly known to the police as a potential extremist, no barriers would be needed if he'd been interred, save the walls of some cell. But if you wanted barriers, how statistically would be an efficient way of checking people out? Right, so that's not going to happen, is it?

Why am I not surprised that you're suggesting imprisoning people for crimes they might possibly commit many years in the future.

TwsT · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:08

Chris Wilson said:
This attacker is allegedly known to the police as a potential extremist, no barriers would be needed if he'd been interred, save the walls of some cell. But if you wanted barriers, how statistically would be an efficient way of checking people out? Right, so that's not going to happen, is it?

I don't want barriers it's utterly useless in a city like london it would be impractical and still wouldn't prevent Random acts. Terrorism has already evolved and simplified its attacks into isolated events that don't need to be discussed and thus are harder to predict and intercept.

Big Spender · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:13

danielanthony said:
I'm not saying I have all the answers, just putting some ideas out there based on what has been done before in order to beat terrorist threats. The army had observation posts in N.Ireland manned 24/7 so not a totally crazy idea especially with modern techniques in facial recognition. I'm just maintaining that *something* needs to change as we can't carry on business as usual.

Really? During the troubles there were more than 10,000 bombing attacks by "terrorists"

This is the first attack in 12 years in london and it was carried out by a single man with a car and a knife.

Avenged7Fold · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:13

FishFluff said:
Why am I not surprised that you're suggesting imprisoning people for crimes they might possibly commit many years in the future.

Scary thing is that people like him label others as potential extremists for being in a religion or from a country.

We dont have enough cells in the world for this sort of 'strategy'

Hades · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:14

TwsT said:
I don't want barriers it's utterly useless in a city like london it would be impractical and still wouldn't prevent Random acts. Terrorism has already evolved and simplified its attacks into isolated events that don't need to be discussed and thus are harder to predict and intercept.

There are actually only several ways in and out of London. After the IRA bombs the road layout was changed slightly to reduce them. Armed police guarded those few entrance points for a few years but have now been replaced with CCTV. I used to drive through them on the way to work back in the day.

TwsT · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:15

danielanthony said:
I'm not saying I have all the answers, just putting some ideas out there based on what has been done before in order to beat terrorist threats. The army had observation posts in N.Ireland manned 24/7 so not a totally crazy idea especially with modern techniques in facial recognition. I'm just maintaining that *something* needs to change as we can't carry on business as usual.

Which is fine and i think the whole country would love a solution but most of us want a fair and equal solution that doesn't bite us all in the ass later on. Protecting civil liberties by eroding them is a dangerous game and once we've given up our rights we won't get them back. Much like brexit these decisions are real and finite once you say it's ok for the government to monitor your every move online there is no going back

Buddy · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:18

Not sure if already posted but Muslims for London raising money for the families of the victims.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-uk-muslim-community-donations-a7645396.html

Direct link :
https://www.launchgood.com/project/muslims_united_for_london#/

I hope members on here take the time to donate.

RIP to the victims.

VincentHanna · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:19

Buckingham Palace, Big Ben, House of Parliament

These are all huge tourists attractions in our free western society. People mill around taking selfies and getting family photos.

Putting armed checkpoints in with a "papers please" system is how you show the terrorists that they are winning.

The simplest way of stopping that attack is probably some reinforced railings on the bridge between the road and pedestrianised section...

Chris Wilson · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:19

FishFluff said:
Why am I not surprised that you're suggesting imprisoning people for crimes they might possibly commit many years in the future.

It's because I am a none politically correct realist, who tells it as it is. How many of these attacks Europe wide have been made by those the authorities have flagged as a potential threat? That's why you are not surprised FishFluff!

VincentHanna said:
Buckingham Palace, Big Ben, House of Parliament

These are all huge tourists attractions in our free western society. People mill around taking selfies and getting family photos.

Putting armed checkpoints in with a "papers please" system is how you show the terrorists that they are winning.

The simplest way of stopping that attack is probably some reinforced railings on the bridge between the road and pedestrianised section...

Good God, what a great idea, let's fence off ALL pavements. Oh, hell, we have no steel industry left though... Hey, we could shut the underground and pedestrians could walk that and keep off the roads pretty much altogether. Any other good ideas?

Crpwned · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:22

Chris Wilson said:
It's because I am anone politically correct realist, who tells it as it is. How many of these attacks Europe wide have been made by those the authorities have flagged as a potential threat? That's why you are not surprised FishFluff!

You strike me as a potential right-wing extremist, should we be putting you away for a nice stretch?
Is that how this works?

Mynight · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:23

Chris Wilson said:
It's because I am none politically correct realist, who tells it as it is. How many of these attacks Europe wide have been made by those the authorities have flagged as a potential threat? That's why you are not surprised FishFluff!

Chances are you've been flagged as well but on a different list. Happy to go to prison?

Felon · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:25

danielanthony said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_violence_among_Christians

I think practical solutions would be:

1) More CCTV in all cities and town centres.
2) Check points or barriers protecting areas where there are large numbers of pedestrians.

We are also getting better online surveillance via the UK Investigatory Powers Act (2016).

Seriously? Have you ever lived in London? the place has more CCTV cameras than people,

There are already some temporary checkpoints in the city, around Fenchurch street and a few other areas, plus protective barriers all around HP.

And exactly how are we going to benefit from the "extra security" provided by snoopers charter when;

7/7 bombers - known to MI5 and the police, had previously been investigated, didn't do any good.
Bataclan ringleader and accomplices - already known to the police, didn't do any good
Charlie Hebdo attacks - all attackers known to the police and intelligence services - didn't do any good.
Brussels suicide bombings (airport and underground) - nearly all attackers known to police and intelligence services - didn't do any good
Nice truck attack - main suspect known to the police - didn't do any good
Berlin Christmas market attack - main suspect known to police, and intelligence services - and in the process of being deported, didn't do any good
Westminster attack, - attacker known to the police and MI5 - didn't do any good,

Just because 'the man' knows exactly what pornsite everyone is fapping over each night, doesn't equal more security.

Johno please? · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:25

VincentHanna said:
Buckingham Palace, Big Ben, House of Parliament

These are all huge tourists attractions in our free western society. People mill around taking selfies and getting family photos.

Putting armed checkpoints in with a "papers please" system is how you show the terrorists that they are winning.

The simplest way of stopping that attack is probably some reinforced railings on the bridge between the road and pedestrianised section...

I think a pistol in the hands of the police officer that was stabbed to death may have saved his life though?

Rroff · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:26

Chris Wilson said:
Good God, what a great idea, let's fence off ALL pavements. Oh, hell, we have no steel industry left though... Hey, we could shut the underground and pedestrians could walk that and keep off the roads pretty much altogether. Any other good ideas?

Funnel lots of people into a small confined space? sounds like a great idea.

FishFluff · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:26

Chris Wilson said:
It's because I am a none politically correct realist, who tells it as it is. How many of these attacks Europe wide have been made by those the authorities have flagged as a potential threat? That's why you are not surprised FishFluff!

I'm not sure 'realist' is the word I'd used to describe you.

wildman · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:26

based on Wilsons logic he should be locked up for the potential xenophobic hate crimes he may potentially commit in the future based on his outlook. I can see how this would work well. Excellent.

Mynight · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:27

Screeeech said:
Seriously? Have you ever lived in London? the place has more CCTV cameras than people,

There are already some temporary checkpoints in the city, around Fenchurch street and a few other areas, plus protective barriers all around HP.

And exactly how are we going to benefit from the "extra security" provided by snoopers charter when;

7/7 bombers - known to MI5 and the police, had previously been investigated, didn't do any good.
Bataclan ringleader and accomplices - already known to the police, didn't do any good
Charlie Hebdo attacks - all attackers known to the police and intelligence services - didn't do any good.
Brussels suicide bombings (airport and underground) - nearly all attackers known to police and intelligence services - didn't do any good
Nice truck attack - main suspect known to the police - didn't do any good
Berlin Christmas market attack - main suspect known to police, and intelligence services - and in the process of being deported, didn't do any good
Westminster attack, - attacker known to the police and MI5 - didn't do any good,

Just because 'the man' knows exactly what pornsite everyone is fapping over each night, doesn't equal more security.

It just means these powers has not gone far enough! We need CCTV in every house!

Avenged7Fold · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:27

Johno please? said:
I think a pistol in the hands of the police officer that was stabbed to death may have saved his life though?

Arming your officers and having checkpoints in every busy part of London are two very different things.

matt100 · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:27

I think "what we do" is obvious.

Nothing.

If this truly were a significant threat this would be happening every day, this is the first terrorist attack in 12 years.

Its horrific and tragic and all those things but I think the best way we stand up to it is to pretty much ignore it, take sensible precautions which we clearly had with the speed this was all stopped and move on.

Rroff · 23 Mar 2017 at 12:28

Screeeech said:
And exactly how are we going to benefit from the "extra security" provided by snoopers charter when;

7/7 bombers - known to MI5 and the police, had previously been investigated, didn't do any good.
Bataclan ringleader and accomplices - already known to the police, didn't do any good
Charlie Hebdo attacks - all attackers known to the police and intelligence services - didn't do any good.
Brussels suicide bombings (airport and underground) - nearly all attackers known to police and intelligence services - didn't do any good
Nice truck attack - main suspect known to the police - didn't do any good
Berlin Christmas market attack - main suspect known to police, and intelligence services - and in the process of being deported, didn't do any good
Westminster attack, - attacker known to the police and MI5 - didn't do any good,

Just because 'the man' knows exactly what pornsite everyone is fapping over each night, doesn't equal more security.

Better resources/funding for being able to better investigate and monitor those people would do many many times more good than any amount of surveillance via something like a snoopers charter

things like the snoopers charter just drives those upto no good further underground - seriously annoys me how dense people are over it - that they somehow think that once exposed bad guys will carry on doing what they used to without modification... no they don't.

matt100 said:
If this truly were a significant threat this would be happening every day, this is the first terrorist attack in 12 years.

Several possibly even worse attacks have been disrupted, etc. over the last few years by the security services - this one happened to get through.